4 ms·

I guess if it is humble enough, that opinion isn't too harmful. I think many people would find it dismissive of their experience, especially since you have no j

by benched 13y ago

I guess if it is humble enough, that opinion isn't too harmful. I think many people would find it dismissive of their experience, especially since you have no justification for characterizing their experience for them. To presume to speak of "The LSD Experience" is anything but humble.

Nursie 13y ago
I'm not characterising their experience for them, it's far too variable and subjective to do that. I also didn't use the phrase "The LSD Experience" so I'm not sure why you felt the need to quote that. What I will say is that some people seem to come back from it convinced that acid will change the face of humanity and society in some sort of miraculous way. But when pressed they can't say how. I don't think it's wrong to combine this with the fact that LSD can cause feelings of the profound over the most mundane or nonsensical things and come to the conclusion that they're probably off on one... As I said - do you need acid to see the problems in our human society?
- benched 13y ago
  You seem particularly motivated to discount the awakening effects of LSD. I never mentioned seeing problems in society, so as far as I'm concerned that's a strawman. Are people wrong to feel profundity in the mundane? Is there another way to interpret the belief that LSD or access to altered states could change society?
  - Nursie 13y ago
    I have no evidence such awakenings exist, and nobody can ever really define what they mean by them. What do you mean, exactly? Nobody is wrong to feel profundity in the mundane, but LSD can have you feeling a profound connection to a piece of cheese, or suddenly realising that all humanity's problems would go away if we just wore more purple. As for the problems with society, it very relevant to people who talk about awakenings and how/why the legislators and policy makers (to quote the post I originally replied to) would be somehow afraid of these awakenings. It seems like magical thinking. And as nobody has been able to actually explain what they mean, that's the conclusion I've come to.
    - benched 13y ago
      You're still doing it. You're spouting inanity you contrived out of your own head, and feigning to attribute that inanity to typical LSD use. But do keep promoting your conclusion - I'm sure there's some important insight there.
      - Nursie 13y ago
        >> You're still doing it. You're spouting inanity you contrived out of your own head, and feigning to attribute that inanity to typical LSD use. I may as well say the same to you, having started by misquoting me and then failed to answer any questions. >> But do keep promoting your conclusion - I'm sure there's some important insight there. My conclusion is there's no evidence that widespread use of LSD would change much or result in major changes to society. Do you have any evidence or are you just spouting shit too?
        pazimzadeh 13y ago
        "Nobody is wrong to feel profundity in the mundane, but LSD can have you feeling a profound connection to a piece of cheese, or suddenly realising that all humanity's problems would go away if we just wore more purple." I can't speak to your experience on LSD, but for me LSD removes boundaries in my mind and provokes me to realize that we humans are way more similar than we are different. In fact, the same goes for other animals on this planet. LSD makes me realizes things that I technically already knew, but didn't feel. How does LSD affect you?
        Nursie 13y ago
        >> How does LSD affect you? In a vast variety of different ways depending on dose, set and setting etc. I understand your realisation, I do. But I'm not seeing how it would be world-changing if more people were allowed to take it because I know people whose LSD experience was (repeatedly) "sit in the corner of a nightclub with wide eyes and a grin".
    - aaronem 13y ago
- munchhausen 13y ago
  > As I said - do you need acid to see the problems in our human society? You are on a red herring streak :) You do not need acid to see the problems within human society. But acid helps when it comes to seeing the problems within yourself, and giving you motivation to fix them. The transformative potential of acid on society can be expressed in statistical terms. If a sufficiently large number of people were to embark on a course of self improvement and personal evolution towards humanistic and compassionate values, this phenomenon would bring about societal change.
  - Nursie 13y ago
    What sort of changes? Why do you think LSD would necessarily bring about more humanistic or compassionate values?
    - speculatorrent 13y ago
      While some people do seem to be less of an asshole after doing LSD, I've seen some very hate filled and bigoted people remain convicted of their prejudice even after using multiple times.
      - davidtanner 13y ago
        They're probably not doing high enough doses and/or a combination of the following: Using LSD with intentions to not be bigoted, prejudice, etc. Taking LSD with the intention to introspect, experience spirituality, etc Taking lots of medium dose LSD over time (years, decades) till the character of the experience gradually evolves for them in such a way as to reduce bigotry and prejudice When people say LSD can have profound effects on people what often gets left out is that one may need to take it more frequently and in higher doses than most recreational users tend to do. Intentions matter, too.

by benched 13y ago

Nursie 13y ago

I'm not characterising their experience for them, it's far too variable and subjective to do that. I also didn't use the phrase "The LSD Experience" so I'm not sure why you felt the need to quote that. What I will say is that some people seem to come back from it convinced that acid will change the face of humanity and society in some sort of miraculous way. But when pressed they can't say how. I don't think it's wrong to combine this with the fact that LSD can cause feelings of the profound over the most mundane or nonsensical things and come to the conclusion that they're probably off on one... As I said - do you need acid to see the problems in our human society?

benched 13y ago
You seem particularly motivated to discount the awakening effects of LSD. I never mentioned seeing problems in society, so as far as I'm concerned that's a strawman. Are people wrong to feel profundity in the mundane? Is there another way to interpret the belief that LSD or access to altered states could change society?
- Nursie 13y ago
  I have no evidence such awakenings exist, and nobody can ever really define what they mean by them. What do you mean, exactly? Nobody is wrong to feel profundity in the mundane, but LSD can have you feeling a profound connection to a piece of cheese, or suddenly realising that all humanity's problems would go away if we just wore more purple. As for the problems with society, it very relevant to people who talk about awakenings and how/why the legislators and policy makers (to quote the post I originally replied to) would be somehow afraid of these awakenings. It seems like magical thinking. And as nobody has been able to actually explain what they mean, that's the conclusion I've come to.
  - benched 13y ago
    You're still doing it. You're spouting inanity you contrived out of your own head, and feigning to attribute that inanity to typical LSD use. But do keep promoting your conclusion - I'm sure there's some important insight there.
    - Nursie 13y ago
      >> You're still doing it. You're spouting inanity you contrived out of your own head, and feigning to attribute that inanity to typical LSD use. I may as well say the same to you, having started by misquoting me and then failed to answer any questions. >> But do keep promoting your conclusion - I'm sure there's some important insight there. My conclusion is there's no evidence that widespread use of LSD would change much or result in major changes to society. Do you have any evidence or are you just spouting shit too?
      - pazimzadeh 13y ago
        "Nobody is wrong to feel profundity in the mundane, but LSD can have you feeling a profound connection to a piece of cheese, or suddenly realising that all humanity's problems would go away if we just wore more purple." I can't speak to your experience on LSD, but for me LSD removes boundaries in my mind and provokes me to realize that we humans are way more similar than we are different. In fact, the same goes for other animals on this planet. LSD makes me realizes things that I technically already knew, but didn't feel. How does LSD affect you?
        Nursie 13y ago
        >> How does LSD affect you? In a vast variety of different ways depending on dose, set and setting etc. I understand your realisation, I do. But I'm not seeing how it would be world-changing if more people were allowed to take it because I know people whose LSD experience was (repeatedly) "sit in the corner of a nightclub with wide eyes and a grin".
  - aaronem 13y ago
munchhausen 13y ago
> As I said - do you need acid to see the problems in our human society? You are on a red herring streak :) You do not need acid to see the problems within human society. But acid helps when it comes to seeing the problems within yourself, and giving you motivation to fix them. The transformative potential of acid on society can be expressed in statistical terms. If a sufficiently large number of people were to embark on a course of self improvement and personal evolution towards humanistic and compassionate values, this phenomenon would bring about societal change.
- Nursie 13y ago
  What sort of changes? Why do you think LSD would necessarily bring about more humanistic or compassionate values?
  - speculatorrent 13y ago
    While some people do seem to be less of an asshole after doing LSD, I've seen some very hate filled and bigoted people remain convicted of their prejudice even after using multiple times.
    - davidtanner 13y ago
      They're probably not doing high enough doses and/or a combination of the following: Using LSD with intentions to not be bigoted, prejudice, etc. Taking LSD with the intention to introspect, experience spirituality, etc Taking lots of medium dose LSD over time (years, decades) till the character of the experience gradually evolves for them in such a way as to reduce bigotry and prejudice When people say LSD can have profound effects on people what often gets left out is that one may need to take it more frequently and in higher doses than most recreational users tend to do. Intentions matter, too.