6 ms·

I've always found it incredibly amazing that psychedelics (LSD, psilocybin, MDMA, DMT etc) were outlawed in responses to forms of massive, peaceful "movements"

I've always found it incredibly amazing that psychedelics (LSD, psilocybin, MDMA, DMT etc) were outlawed in responses to forms of massive, peaceful "movements" in which taking psychedelics was something the members of the movement were known to do; that legislators and policy makers were so afraid of the affects these chemicals would have on society that they had to put the serious force of the law behind getting them out of the hands and the minds of the people.

Nursie 13y ago
I think it was just a convenient way to continue to suppress the counterculture while also looking tough and moral, because we all know how much our politicians love that. The effects of LSD in freeing peoples minds or somehow waking them up to reality are exaggerated IMHO. I mean, do you need LSD to know the government is wasting your money and making insane legislation?
- benched 13y ago
  I guess if it is humble enough, that opinion isn't too harmful. I think many people would find it dismissive of their experience, especially since you have no justification for characterizing their experience for them. To presume to speak of "The LSD Experience" is anything but humble.
  - Nursie 13y ago
    I'm not characterising their experience for them, it's far too variable and subjective to do that. I also didn't use the phrase "The LSD Experience" so I'm not sure why you felt the need to quote that. What I will say is that some people seem to come back from it convinced that acid will change the face of humanity and society in some sort of miraculous way. But when pressed they can't say how. I don't think it's wrong to combine this with the fact that LSD can cause feelings of the profound over the most mundane or nonsensical things and come to the conclusion that they're probably off on one... As I said - do you need acid to see the problems in our human society?
    - benched 13y ago
      You seem particularly motivated to discount the awakening effects of LSD. I never mentioned seeing problems in society, so as far as I'm concerned that's a strawman. Are people wrong to feel profundity in the mundane? Is there another way to interpret the belief that LSD or access to altered states could change society?
      - Nursie 13y ago
        I have no evidence such awakenings exist, and nobody can ever really define what they mean by them. What do you mean, exactly? Nobody is wrong to feel profundity in the mundane, but LSD can have you feeling a profound connection to a piece of cheese, or suddenly realising that all humanity's problems would go away if we just wore more purple. As for the problems with society, it very relevant to people who talk about awakenings and how/why the legislators and policy makers (to quote the post I originally replied to) would be somehow afraid of these awakenings. It seems like magical thinking. And as nobody has been able to actually explain what they mean, that's the conclusion I've come to.
        benched 13y ago
        You're still doing it. You're spouting inanity you contrived out of your own head, and feigning to attribute that inanity to typical LSD use. But do keep promoting your conclusion - I'm sure there's some important insight there.
        Nursie 13y ago
        >> You're still doing it. You're spouting inanity you contrived out of your own head, and feigning to attribute that inanity to typical LSD use. I may as well say the same to you, having started by misquoting me and then failed to answer any questions. >> But do keep promoting your conclusion - I'm sure there's some important insight there. My conclusion is there's no evidence that widespread use of LSD would change much or result in major changes to society. Do you have any evidence or are you just spouting shit too?
- snake_plissken 13y ago
  Oh yeah, of course it was a way to suppress the countercultures. But not all countercultures had or have drug use perceived as one of their defining characteristics.
- munchhausen 13y ago
  > The effects of LSD in freeing peoples minds or somehow waking them up to reality are exaggerated IMHO. > I mean, do you need LSD to know the government is wasting your money and making insane legislation? Nice red herring. Indeed, you do not need to take LSD to know that the government is wasting money and making insane legislation. It's really pretty obvious and in the midst of a breakthrough LSD trip, you would probably find this to be a trifling, utterly irrelevant matter, and wouldn't waste too much time thinking about it. The effects of LSD on freeing people's minds lie elsewhere, not in making people aware of the governmental abuses of power.
  - Nursie 13y ago
    >> The effects of LSD on freeing people's minds lie elsewhere, not in making people aware of the governmental abuses of power. So please describe what these effects would be? And please don't think when I talk about it inducing a false sense of the profound that I speak from ignorance or inexperience.
    - benched 13y ago
      Yes, we'll compress it into a few sentences in a Hacker News comment, to make it as easy as possible to trivialize via verbal argument. The very idea that you can discriminate true and "false" senses of the cosmic, for anybody, says a lot about where you're speaking from.
      - aaren 13y ago
        >>> The effects of LSD on freeing people's minds lie elsewhere, not in making people aware of the governmental abuses of power. To be fair, the poster before did make a statement about what effects lsd would not have. I agree with you that it will be difficult to verbalise any of this. However, I would say that an increased awareness of power structures is a possible outcome of a psychedelic experience.
      - Nursie 13y ago
        I'm sorry, but if you come back from a trip convinced of many of the things I've seen and heard people decide when on trips... well let me just say that some of these great and profound realisations are just nonsense when looked at in the cold light of day later. I'm absolutely not criticising anyone's experience of LSD, but I'm not sure either why you refuse to contemplate that there could an inebriant and hallucinogenic component to acid that can result in just as much drivel as you get from a drunk. If every experience you've ever had was a deep shamanic awakening that taught you about yourself and the universe then that's aweseom for you. 99% of the use of acid I've ever seen was more about giggling, talking bullshit and staring at the pretty colours.
MichaelGG 13y ago
The people promoting psychedelics back then were also being quite irresponsible. Dosing people without consent or knowledge and whatnot. All the "science" done then was terribly flawed. Not that they should be responsible or that I'm blaming them for the backlash, but a bit more tact may have helped the movement in the long-term.
Crito 13y ago
> "psychedelics (LSD, psilocybin, MDMA, DMT etc) were outlawed in responses to forms of massive, peaceful "movements" in which taking psychedelics was something the members of the movement were known to do" I think that is true, but I think you have misidentified the actual rational behind the bans. In Dan Baum's Smoke and Mirrors, Dan Baum has John Ehrlichman, Nixon's domestic policy advisor, admitting that heroin and weed were targeted because their use was [perceived to be] popular among black people and hippies, both groups that the 'silent majority' feared. Targeting these drugs appeased the fearful ignorant 'silent majority', and it allowed the government to actually go after and disrupt these groups. "we understood we couldn't make it illegal to be young or poor or black in the United States, but we could criminalize their common pleasure."
phusion 13y ago
Sorry to parrot hippies and/or Bill Hicks, but they outlawed those drugs because they're not alcohol and cigarettes, they allow you to see how you're being fucked every day of your life, so of course they're outlawed :)That peaceful movement was a threat to the powers that be..
- nanidin 13y ago
  Yes, it's definitely a conspiracy. Never forget the man is out to get us!

Nursie 13y ago

I think it was just a convenient way to continue to suppress the counterculture while also looking tough and moral, because we all know how much our politicians love that. The effects of LSD in freeing peoples minds or somehow waking them up to reality are exaggerated IMHO. I mean, do you need LSD to know the government is wasting your money and making insane legislation?

benched 13y ago
I guess if it is humble enough, that opinion isn't too harmful. I think many people would find it dismissive of their experience, especially since you have no justification for characterizing their experience for them. To presume to speak of "The LSD Experience" is anything but humble.
- Nursie 13y ago
  I'm not characterising their experience for them, it's far too variable and subjective to do that. I also didn't use the phrase "The LSD Experience" so I'm not sure why you felt the need to quote that. What I will say is that some people seem to come back from it convinced that acid will change the face of humanity and society in some sort of miraculous way. But when pressed they can't say how. I don't think it's wrong to combine this with the fact that LSD can cause feelings of the profound over the most mundane or nonsensical things and come to the conclusion that they're probably off on one... As I said - do you need acid to see the problems in our human society?
  - benched 13y ago
    You seem particularly motivated to discount the awakening effects of LSD. I never mentioned seeing problems in society, so as far as I'm concerned that's a strawman. Are people wrong to feel profundity in the mundane? Is there another way to interpret the belief that LSD or access to altered states could change society?
    - Nursie 13y ago
      I have no evidence such awakenings exist, and nobody can ever really define what they mean by them. What do you mean, exactly? Nobody is wrong to feel profundity in the mundane, but LSD can have you feeling a profound connection to a piece of cheese, or suddenly realising that all humanity's problems would go away if we just wore more purple. As for the problems with society, it very relevant to people who talk about awakenings and how/why the legislators and policy makers (to quote the post I originally replied to) would be somehow afraid of these awakenings. It seems like magical thinking. And as nobody has been able to actually explain what they mean, that's the conclusion I've come to.
      - benched 13y ago
        You're still doing it. You're spouting inanity you contrived out of your own head, and feigning to attribute that inanity to typical LSD use. But do keep promoting your conclusion - I'm sure there's some important insight there.
        Nursie 13y ago
        >> You're still doing it. You're spouting inanity you contrived out of your own head, and feigning to attribute that inanity to typical LSD use. I may as well say the same to you, having started by misquoting me and then failed to answer any questions. >> But do keep promoting your conclusion - I'm sure there's some important insight there. My conclusion is there's no evidence that widespread use of LSD would change much or result in major changes to society. Do you have any evidence or are you just spouting shit too?
snake_plissken 13y ago
Oh yeah, of course it was a way to suppress the countercultures. But not all countercultures had or have drug use perceived as one of their defining characteristics.
munchhausen 13y ago
> The effects of LSD in freeing peoples minds or somehow waking them up to reality are exaggerated IMHO. > I mean, do you need LSD to know the government is wasting your money and making insane legislation? Nice red herring. Indeed, you do not need to take LSD to know that the government is wasting money and making insane legislation. It's really pretty obvious and in the midst of a breakthrough LSD trip, you would probably find this to be a trifling, utterly irrelevant matter, and wouldn't waste too much time thinking about it. The effects of LSD on freeing people's minds lie elsewhere, not in making people aware of the governmental abuses of power.
- Nursie 13y ago
  >> The effects of LSD on freeing people's minds lie elsewhere, not in making people aware of the governmental abuses of power. So please describe what these effects would be? And please don't think when I talk about it inducing a false sense of the profound that I speak from ignorance or inexperience.
  - benched 13y ago
    Yes, we'll compress it into a few sentences in a Hacker News comment, to make it as easy as possible to trivialize via verbal argument. The very idea that you can discriminate true and "false" senses of the cosmic, for anybody, says a lot about where you're speaking from.
    - aaren 13y ago
      >>> The effects of LSD on freeing people's minds lie elsewhere, not in making people aware of the governmental abuses of power. To be fair, the poster before did make a statement about what effects lsd would not have. I agree with you that it will be difficult to verbalise any of this. However, I would say that an increased awareness of power structures is a possible outcome of a psychedelic experience.
    - Nursie 13y ago
      I'm sorry, but if you come back from a trip convinced of many of the things I've seen and heard people decide when on trips... well let me just say that some of these great and profound realisations are just nonsense when looked at in the cold light of day later. I'm absolutely not criticising anyone's experience of LSD, but I'm not sure either why you refuse to contemplate that there could an inebriant and hallucinogenic component to acid that can result in just as much drivel as you get from a drunk. If every experience you've ever had was a deep shamanic awakening that taught you about yourself and the universe then that's aweseom for you. 99% of the use of acid I've ever seen was more about giggling, talking bullshit and staring at the pretty colours.

MichaelGG 13y ago

The people promoting psychedelics back then were also being quite irresponsible. Dosing people without consent or knowledge and whatnot. All the "science" done then was terribly flawed. Not that they should be responsible or that I'm blaming them for the backlash, but a bit more tact may have helped the movement in the long-term.

Crito 13y ago

> "psychedelics (LSD, psilocybin, MDMA, DMT etc) were outlawed in responses to forms of massive, peaceful "movements" in which taking psychedelics was something the members of the movement were known to do" I think that is true, but I think you have misidentified the actual rational behind the bans. In Dan Baum's Smoke and Mirrors, Dan Baum has John Ehrlichman, Nixon's domestic policy advisor, admitting that heroin and weed were targeted because their use was [perceived to be] popular among black people and hippies, both groups that the 'silent majority' feared. Targeting these drugs appeased the fearful ignorant 'silent majority', and it allowed the government to actually go after and disrupt these groups. "we understood we couldn't make it illegal to be young or poor or black in the United States, but we could criminalize their common pleasure."

phusion 13y ago

Sorry to parrot hippies and/or Bill Hicks, but they outlawed those drugs because they're not alcohol and cigarettes, they allow you to see how you're being fucked every day of your life, so of course they're outlawed :)That peaceful movement was a threat to the powers that be..

nanidin 13y ago
Yes, it's definitely a conspiracy. Never forget the man is out to get us!