5 ms·

Happens all the time http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012%E2%80%9313_Cypriot_financial_crisis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012%E2%80%9313_Cypriot_financi...

arethuza 13y ago
Except that wasn't "everybody's accounts".
anigbrowl 13y ago
Those things are called crises because they actually happen quite rarely. When such episodes become a regular occurrence people tend to abandon the system in question. I keep seeing this attitude among Bitcoin fans. Of course, there have been many financial crises with regular currencies and banking systems. But that doesn't mean they're the norm. When you look at the number of crisis against the number of different financial systems and years-without-a-crisis it's obvious that they're exceptional. Sadly, the number of Bitcoin shocks seems to be increasing linearly with scale. I don't think this is inherent so much as a problem of overconfidence and magical thinking. Right now Bitcoin service providers (in the aggregate) are like builders whose structures catch fire distressingly frequently, but who excuse this by pointing to famous fires of the past. The fact that fires have historically been a problem doesn't mean fire codes are useless; quite the opposite, in fact.
- gatehouse 13y ago
  I agree that most Bitcoin service providers are total bullshit. Satoshi does backflips to create a decentralized system, and the first thing these idiots do it to try to centralize it in all sorts of ways. If the people doing the transaction can agree on a trusted 3rd party, then you don't need Bitcoin. But credit card fraud happens every day, large bankruptcies happen every year, and sovereign default happens every decade, because people are unreliable.
  - anigbrowl 13y ago
    You're quite right, but we should view the incidence of fraud, bankruptcy, and default in the context of the economy within which they take place. Like there may be thousands of credit card fraud attempts every day within the US, but the number is fairly insignificant compared to the number of legitimate transactions by honest users. Likewise there are a few bank failures every month, but institutional failures where large chunks of depositors' money disappears are fortunately quite rare).
- pjc50 13y ago
  I'm working on an analogy between Bitcoin evangelists and anti-vaxxers: - something bad happens to someone doing the conventional thing (vaccination, banking) - people panic about it on the internet - there is a lack of trust in other people and institutions - people pull away from the conventional system - in the short term it's fine - then there is an epidemic (measles, fraud/loss) - this is much worse than the system they rejected, so they resort to denial - everyone else says "I told you so"

arethuza 13y ago

Except that wasn't "everybody's accounts".

anigbrowl 13y ago

Those things are called crises because they actually happen quite rarely. When such episodes become a regular occurrence people tend to abandon the system in question. I keep seeing this attitude among Bitcoin fans. Of course, there have been many financial crises with regular currencies and banking systems. But that doesn't mean they're the norm. When you look at the number of crisis against the number of different financial systems and years-without-a-crisis it's obvious that they're exceptional. Sadly, the number of Bitcoin shocks seems to be increasing linearly with scale. I don't think this is inherent so much as a problem of overconfidence and magical thinking. Right now Bitcoin service providers (in the aggregate) are like builders whose structures catch fire distressingly frequently, but who excuse this by pointing to famous fires of the past. The fact that fires have historically been a problem doesn't mean fire codes are useless; quite the opposite, in fact.

gatehouse 13y ago
I agree that most Bitcoin service providers are total bullshit. Satoshi does backflips to create a decentralized system, and the first thing these idiots do it to try to centralize it in all sorts of ways. If the people doing the transaction can agree on a trusted 3rd party, then you don't need Bitcoin. But credit card fraud happens every day, large bankruptcies happen every year, and sovereign default happens every decade, because people are unreliable.
- anigbrowl 13y ago
  You're quite right, but we should view the incidence of fraud, bankruptcy, and default in the context of the economy within which they take place. Like there may be thousands of credit card fraud attempts every day within the US, but the number is fairly insignificant compared to the number of legitimate transactions by honest users. Likewise there are a few bank failures every month, but institutional failures where large chunks of depositors' money disappears are fortunately quite rare).
pjc50 13y ago
I'm working on an analogy between Bitcoin evangelists and anti-vaxxers: - something bad happens to someone doing the conventional thing (vaccination, banking) - people panic about it on the internet - there is a lack of trust in other people and institutions - people pull away from the conventional system - in the short term it's fine - then there is an epidemic (measles, fraud/loss) - this is much worse than the system they rejected, so they resort to denial - everyone else says "I told you so"