9 ms·

"Women can't visit temples or public places, they're not allowed to cook or touch the water supply". I've seen educated folks doing this as well, so, sadly yes

"Women can't visit temples or public places, they're not allowed to cook or touch the water supply". I've seen educated folks doing this as well, so, sadly yes. It is true. Most women follow it because their mothers/sisters have been doing it. Since it is so common, people tend to accept these superstitions more easily.

apalmer 13y ago
No REALISTICALLY If as stated in this article in these regions during menstruation: 1) The woman uses dirt, sand, ash and rags which are never sterilized but just reused month after month. 2) 70% of all pregnancy related medical issues can be tied back to this lack of hygene Then its not unreasonable to say that the women are unclean in this period and should not have contact with the village water supply... its actually good sense.
- jt2190 13y ago
  > ... its actually good sense. It's only "good sense" if, and this is a big if, (a) we have a strict scientific understanding of what we mean when we say "unclean" and (b) we know that we have literally no other way of mitigating this "uncleanliness." Just as surgeons learned to sterilize themselves and their equipment once they had a scientific understanding of infection, we now have lots of scientific understanding of human menstruation and cleanliness. We should therefor look upon those that insist that women be treated as "unclean" and kept away from the village water supply and temple the same way we'd view a surgeon that insisted that there was no need to wash up before operating.
  - apalmer 13y ago
    No one knew scientifically for thousands of years why pigs were unclean. Or shellfish, or 80% of the stuff that was considered 'unclean' food according to the first testament. Now a days there is a particular scientific explanation for it... traditionally it was the pig rolls around in its own feces, and smells bad, and folks seem to get sick from its meat... the menstruation situation, its bloody, it smells bad, and the women seem to be in pain when they have it... maybe we should not have them handling or washing their clothing and rags in the communal drinking water does not seem like an irrational conclusion. It seems pretty rational to me...
    - sizzle 13y ago
      last time I checked, these rural villagers do not have running water which affects how they bathe, clean clothes, prepare food etc. Add in religious rituals and you have some powerful persuasion to do things in a way that seems backwards to us.
      - ballard 13y ago
        These are the same areas that unfortunately still have honor killings. Regardless, cultural judgements are not an absolute truth, and so other ways, no matter how extreme or foreign, can be tolerated. The frontier that can be helped is hygiene and self-sufficiency. If can start a sexual equality revolution in India, build a bazillion of these machines. A 3d printer as it were.
        sizzle 13y ago
        I think you have your facts mixed up. Honor killings are not an Indian ritual by any means and unheard of in even uneducated villages.
        plumenator 13y ago
        Actually, he is right. Khap panchayats in the state of Haryana act as a parallel government and sanction honor killings. Recently in a village in Bengal a similar village body ordered a woman to be gang-raped by her fellow villagers.
        deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
        deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
        ballard 13y ago
        There's likely global (but unprovable given nature of social science) precedent for this and similar in most every culture where fidelity and virginity were absolute sacred values. Another practice for example, rural villagers in South American will kill you no questions asked if you mess with their daughters. In the US, a "shotgun wedding" had its name for a reason. My grandparents can attest that a couple of my great-grandparents were modern comparatively barbaric farmers (Jeff Foxworthy redneck jokes all the way).
josephschmoe 13y ago
You should also consider the culture these myths create. It forces women to depend on one-another for a significant portion of the time, which, among other things, is a good anti-rape mechanism. Certainly, these are crazy and superstitious, but given the realities of the times they come from, many of them were a net benefit to their rural society (or have minimal impact) - which is how they've survived to this day. We have better knowledge now, and we should embrace it, but someone isn't necessarily stupid for following these rules.
- lostlogin 13y ago
  I've got to dispute this - India has appalling rates of abuse, rape and mistreatment of women, and I don't believe any systems in place there are helpful. Have you got any citations that might change my opinion?
  - cubancigar11 13y ago
    It is a myth that India has appalling rates of rape. Rape is appalling, but it is fun nowadays to portray India as particularly bad when in reality it is pretty average statistically.[1] For example, rapes per capita: USA (27.3), Sweden (63.5), India (1.8), Canada (1.7). The counter argument generally is that India has lax laws, but to me that is a non-argument. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics#Rape_statistics_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics#Rape_statistic...
    - ygra 13y ago
      ... per 100000 capita. 27 rapes per person would be a bit high.
      - deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
    - testos 13y ago
      Following your link : "This list indicates the number of, and per capita cases of recorded rape. It does not include cases of rape which go unreported, or which are not recorded" Hey don't you see any reason for a victim of rape to not report her/his aggression? Once you find one or two, think about how they may influence the results in the US and in India. Does the comparison hold? You can play blind if you want, don't try to convince others. Your statistics cannot be used for international comparisons.

apalmer 13y ago

No REALISTICALLY If as stated in this article in these regions during menstruation: 1) The woman uses dirt, sand, ash and rags which are never sterilized but just reused month after month. 2) 70% of all pregnancy related medical issues can be tied back to this lack of hygene Then its not unreasonable to say that the women are unclean in this period and should not have contact with the village water supply... its actually good sense.

jt2190 13y ago
> ... its actually good sense. It's only "good sense" if, and this is a big if, (a) we have a strict scientific understanding of what we mean when we say "unclean" and (b) we know that we have literally no other way of mitigating this "uncleanliness." Just as surgeons learned to sterilize themselves and their equipment once they had a scientific understanding of infection, we now have lots of scientific understanding of human menstruation and cleanliness. We should therefor look upon those that insist that women be treated as "unclean" and kept away from the village water supply and temple the same way we'd view a surgeon that insisted that there was no need to wash up before operating.
- apalmer 13y ago
  No one knew scientifically for thousands of years why pigs were unclean. Or shellfish, or 80% of the stuff that was considered 'unclean' food according to the first testament. Now a days there is a particular scientific explanation for it... traditionally it was the pig rolls around in its own feces, and smells bad, and folks seem to get sick from its meat... the menstruation situation, its bloody, it smells bad, and the women seem to be in pain when they have it... maybe we should not have them handling or washing their clothing and rags in the communal drinking water does not seem like an irrational conclusion. It seems pretty rational to me...
  - sizzle 13y ago
    last time I checked, these rural villagers do not have running water which affects how they bathe, clean clothes, prepare food etc. Add in religious rituals and you have some powerful persuasion to do things in a way that seems backwards to us.
    - ballard 13y ago
      These are the same areas that unfortunately still have honor killings. Regardless, cultural judgements are not an absolute truth, and so other ways, no matter how extreme or foreign, can be tolerated. The frontier that can be helped is hygiene and self-sufficiency. If can start a sexual equality revolution in India, build a bazillion of these machines. A 3d printer as it were.
      - sizzle 13y ago
        I think you have your facts mixed up. Honor killings are not an Indian ritual by any means and unheard of in even uneducated villages.
        plumenator 13y ago
        Actually, he is right. Khap panchayats in the state of Haryana act as a parallel government and sanction honor killings. Recently in a village in Bengal a similar village body ordered a woman to be gang-raped by her fellow villagers.
        deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
        deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
        ballard 13y ago
        There's likely global (but unprovable given nature of social science) precedent for this and similar in most every culture where fidelity and virginity were absolute sacred values. Another practice for example, rural villagers in South American will kill you no questions asked if you mess with their daughters. In the US, a "shotgun wedding" had its name for a reason. My grandparents can attest that a couple of my great-grandparents were modern comparatively barbaric farmers (Jeff Foxworthy redneck jokes all the way).

josephschmoe 13y ago

You should also consider the culture these myths create. It forces women to depend on one-another for a significant portion of the time, which, among other things, is a good anti-rape mechanism. Certainly, these are crazy and superstitious, but given the realities of the times they come from, many of them were a net benefit to their rural society (or have minimal impact) - which is how they've survived to this day. We have better knowledge now, and we should embrace it, but someone isn't necessarily stupid for following these rules.

lostlogin 13y ago
I've got to dispute this - India has appalling rates of abuse, rape and mistreatment of women, and I don't believe any systems in place there are helpful. Have you got any citations that might change my opinion?
- cubancigar11 13y ago
  It is a myth that India has appalling rates of rape. Rape is appalling, but it is fun nowadays to portray India as particularly bad when in reality it is pretty average statistically.[1] For example, rapes per capita: USA (27.3), Sweden (63.5), India (1.8), Canada (1.7). The counter argument generally is that India has lax laws, but to me that is a non-argument. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics#Rape_statistics_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics#Rape_statistic...
  - ygra 13y ago
    ... per 100000 capita. 27 rapes per person would be a bit high.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
  - testos 13y ago
    Following your link : "This list indicates the number of, and per capita cases of recorded rape. It does not include cases of rape which go unreported, or which are not recorded" Hey don't you see any reason for a victim of rape to not report her/his aggression? Once you find one or two, think about how they may influence the results in the US and in India. Does the comparison hold? You can play blind if you want, don't try to convince others. Your statistics cannot be used for international comparisons.