11 ms·

Tesla Announces Ambitious European Expansion Plans

162 points by austenallred 13y ago

imdsm 13y ago
This is great news. I'm a big fan of Tesla and would love to drive one, but being in the UK, we lack quick chargers. Not too bad if you've got a few hours spare to charge. Interesting map of UK charging points: http://www.nextgreencar.com/electric-cars/charging-points.php http://www.nextgreencar.com/electric-cars/charging-points.ph...
- cstross 13y ago
  A secondary issue for the UK is that we're densely populated and our housing stock is, on average, 75 years old. Lots of dwellings predate the automobile and/or lack a garage or a garden (US: yard) on which to build one. Consequently, home charging is less of an option.
  - tehwalrus 13y ago
    you do need your own driveway to charge, its true, totally illegal/unsafe to run cables over the pavement (US: sidewalk). Or you just need to live very close to one of the few charging points that do exist. There's one about 30 yards from my front door in London, quite cool if you actually need a car here...
  - jseliger 13y ago
    our housing stock is, on average, 75 years old Tangential but relevant here: "15 Facts That Reveal The Utter Insanity Of Britain’s Housing Market" (http://www.buzzfeed.com/dlknowles/britains-dysfunctional-property-market-in-gi-fm44 http://www.buzzfeed.com/dlknowles/britains-dysfunctional-pro...)
    - lclarkmichalek 13y ago
      What a horrid article. Fuck history, fuck the environment, house prices are too high. I'm going to have to agree with Jamie Marshall in the comments: "The author of this is clearly an idiot."
      - Symmetry 13y ago
        Why do you think building new houses is bad for the environment? In the short term you're paying for materials, but that'll be made up pretty quickly by better insulation and, if you get multi-family dwellings, a lower surface area to volume ratio. And shorter commutes also tend to strongly decrease transpiration energy use. Clearly you would be losing historical character if you did what the article suggests, but from what I can see all the environmental arguments are on the other side, unless you think that restricting the housing supply will reduce the number of people.
        jseliger 13y ago
        Why do you think building new houses is bad for the environment? Indeed: per Edward Glaeser's book The Triumph of the City, denser cities are much more environmentally friendly than suburbs, exurbs, or rural areas. Everyone has to live somewhere.
    - vidarh 13y ago
      I don't think his point is very well made, though. First, the issue is not so much planning permission, as in all the externalities that the planning process seeks to capture. In many parts of London at least, the councils and planning offices are falling over themselves to be helpful to developers, but they still have responsibilities to residents they need to be mindful of. While it is true there are some limitations on building up in central London, for example, vast areas of London is not built up to anywhere near the legal limits. As we see, as there are massive amounts of building projects in Central London aiming to increase density. Over the last ten years, for example, large parts of the Thames have seen buildings of 10+ stories going up next to the river on old industrial sites, with many towers of 20+ stories. As for the green belt... Croydon, where I live, is out in zone 5, bordering the green belt. It's one of the greenest boroughs in London, and also one of the largest (5th, after Bromley, Hillingdon, Havering and Barnet). Yet it also have large industrial areas, a large business district with substantial space for re-development, and several empty plots cleared for re-development. Space is not the limiting factor for developers here. In fact, there is space on vacant plots immediately adjacent to the main railway station for many thousands of new flats, several of which have planning permission. We also have massive areas of 1930's terraced houses, on plots of about 100-200 m^2, and total liveable area of about 70-100m^2 over two floors. There's massive room for increasing density there just by building 4-8 story buildings. There, certainly, there's lots of room for streamlining the planning process. But hardly anyone are applying for smaller projects like that. Typical new developments in Croydon are 20 floors or above, with one 44 floor tower going up, planning applications going in for a combination of a 16 and 31 floor tower next to the station, planning permissions near being granted for a range of buildings from about 10 to 30 floors next to the station, a major mixed project including other towers in the same range have had permission for years. And there are a number of other similar projects. The thing is, this is not cheap, nor is it fast, and furthermore: It takes a lot of time to fill these buildings in the current economy, which has also slowed various of the building projects that does have permission. Altitude 25 - one of our existing 25 floor buildings, is still not sold out after several years. There's no reason to go into the green belt when there are such massive amounts of land available to build on that is still under-developed. More importantly, though: It's easy to fantasise about increasing density, but increased density has massive societal repercussions that someone need to pay for: - You need more schools. Croydon is already struggling to handle the increase in primary school demands from the new development that is happening. My son goes to a new academy which, when full, will take 750 students. The current classes are full, and all the other nearby schools are near capacity again, though, despite adding classrooms and increasing students per class. - You need more hospitals. Croydon's biggest hospital is near capacity. Increase density much, and massive investment will need to happen to expand hospital capacity. - Policing, fire department, higher education, sanitation, etc. etc. - the investments needed costs a lot of money, and much of it needs to happen before significant housing capacity increases unless you want existing residents to go through years of pain while services catch up. Ultimately you may end up paying less per tax payer than before by increasing density, but in the meantime you may be looking at substantial capital investments to prepare. - Transport. My street is one of the main roads connecting Croydon centre to one of the smaller town centres in the borough, and two of the busier train stations. It is already congested during rush hour, and buses are full. Increase density more, and substantial investments would be needed in improving transport, or you'd cause massive issued for tens of thousands of residents. You won't get more people onto the buses withought buying more buses and adding more drivers. The biggest train station is already being massively overhauled, because it is at capacity and additional highrises nearby will push it way above capacity from additional commuters. It is already one of the busiest stations in England, and a chokepoint for large parts of the train traffic from parts of the South coast to central London. They've set aside space for two extra tracks to terminate, but where would the trains go? The train junctions North of East Croydon are running at capacity most of the day, and large parts of the track is running at near capacity, and the areas next to them are built up almost all the way. The investments required to substantially increase rail capacity will run in the billions - someone needs to pay... A lot of this is part of the planning process. You can not just massively increase density without addressing these issues, and how these things are going to be paid for.
- onion2k 13y ago
  London is obviously first, interesting that the second most prolific place for charging points is around Sunderland in the North East ... where Nissan make their Leaf electric car.
  - nicholassmith 13y ago
    The North East in general has quite a few (I live in Middlesbrough), I assume as a side effect of the Sunderland plant. Unfortunately I don't think I've seen an electric car here, but if Tesla release I imagine that could change.
bausson 13y ago
A push for electric vehicles in Europe is a really good thing, but I'm not sure the market is exactly ready. On the other hand, Tesla has better getting their supercharger network ready before the sales catch up, the other way around would be bad for the brand. And seeing supercharger on the roadside when going to fill one's tank can get people thinking, given gas price.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- toomuchtodo 13y ago
  I would argue Europe is a better market than the US because the distances are shorter (how much of Western Europe can fit in Texas?), so there would be less of a range anxiety discussion.
  - Shivetya 13y ago
    by that token Europe doesn't necessarily need an electric car with the same range possibilities as the Tesla S. The real issue is, how large is the market for hundred thousand dollar electrics? I would think they need to keep jumping into markets because demand cannot be that great or sustaining at those price points. Many luxury buyers have no interest whatsoever in electrics. buyers of Rolls are one such type of buyer. When Rolls trotted out an all electric and took it across the world owners of existing Rolls were not interested. Europe does produce quite a few 100k cars but they tend to be performance exotics, last I checked the main market is much further down stream and for much much smaller cars than the S (which is big even in the US)
  - bausson 13y ago
    Shorter distances is a good argument, but there also others differences which aren't advantage. Most of my observations are from France, since it's where I live, but it should be correct for Germany, Spain, UK at least. Plus : * shorter distances * higher gas price in EU than US Minus : * people usually commute by public transportation. In big cities, they don't even own a car. There is no place to park it, and it's kinda useless, since it take longer to go somewhere by car than by public transport. * For medium distance (100~1000 km), people use both car and train. It's maybe 50/50, depending on the need of car at destination. You are always more independent by car, but by train you arrive quicker, and rested (a good rail network helping). * On the 'social' side of things, the car ownership is not a thing the way it is in america (or is it a generation thing / Hollywood exaggeration, I don't know). European young adult buy a car when they need one, not as soon as possible to show they can support themselves.
arethuza 13y ago
Out of interest, how many other car models have been a success in the United States market then sold successfully in Europe?
- dangrossman 13y ago
  About 1 in 5 Model S cars coming off the Tesla assembly line headed to Europe last year. They're not starting from nothing; the Model S was the best-selling car of any make in Norway, and has sold at least hundreds of units into 6 European countries. Small numbers compared to the incumbents, but certainly high enough to matter to Tesla which only sells some thousands of cars each quarter.
  - kalms 13y ago
    I get the feeling it's doing fine in Denmark as well. Seeing them more and more each day.
    - mercurial 13y ago
      Haven't seen any around Århus but I'll keep an eye out.
      - kalms 13y ago
        Aarhus* :P
  - arethuza 13y ago
    I was just curious about whether Tesla have achieved something that has failed other US manufacturers - create a car that appeals in the US home market and in Europe.
    - pjc50 13y ago
      Tesla lack the traditional ugliness and fuel inefficiency of US cars; the model S looks like a Jaguar but is cheap to run. Nor is it too large.
tehwalrus 13y ago
I can't afford one of the Model Ss, but I am totally in line for when they make the budget model in a few years. Very excited that they'll be making a proper-hand-drive one for the UK too, now all I need is a house (hah) with a driveway (even worse)...
- dabeeeenster 13y ago
  The driveway requirement is an interesting problem. I live ~7 miles from the center of London. Driveways are very, very scarce, and I can't guarantee being able to park in front of my house due to the number of cars on my road. I also don't know how legal/practical trailing a cable from my house is. I basically can't own a Tesla (even though I would like to!) as I would never be able to charge it.
  - pjc50 13y ago
    If I lived that close to central London, I don't think I'd bother owning a car and would rely on TFL.
    - dabeeeenster 13y ago
      Ah but I have two small children...Besides, that's not the point...
    - vidarh 13y ago
      I'm 38 and have never even had a drivers license. I grew up near Oslo, Norway, and moved to London when I was 25 - it's always been so easy to just use public transport that I've never gotten around to it. Keep thinking about it, as it'd be nice to have a license for the occasional car trip for vacations etc., but it's pretty far down the list of "nice to have"'s. Can spend a lot on taxis for what a car would cost me.
  - patrickk 13y ago
    Hopefully a combination of superchargers, EVs in public parking spaces in shopping centers (for example, to attract wealthy EV owners to shop there) and arrangements to have EV charging points near work places will serve people in this situation.
melvinmt 13y ago
At rougly $9.70/gallon for regular gas, Europe makes the most sense for electric vehicles.
Mvandenbergh 13y ago
On the one hand, the much higher population density of Western Europe means that range and charger density issues are much easier to solve. On the other hand, for precisely that reason many people don't have drive-ways to home-charge their cars.
DocG 13y ago
Rumors say that canceled cars are being offered to Estonia first if contacted. Also, there is already two Teslas driving around. (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=et&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=et&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Ftarbija24.postimees.ee%2F2717254%2Ftesla-teeb-eesti-autohuvilistele-eripakkumise http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=et&tl=en&js=n&prev=... take with a pinch of salt) Apparently there is already charging network http://elmo.ee/laadimispunktide-vorgustik/ http://elmo.ee/laadimispunktide-vorgustik/ (compatible thou? I doubt) And you can get up to 18 000 euros backing from goverment when buying electric car. (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=et&sl=et&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Felmo.ee%2Ftingimused%2F http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=et&sl=et&tl=en&u=ht...)
- greglindahl 13y ago
  If that's the Chademo network (Wikipedia says there were 148 of those in Estonia as of March 2012), then yes, Tesla is releasing a Chademo adapter in a few weeks. It charges at 150 miles/hr, slower than a supercharger and much faster than a standard L2 240v charger.
buro9 13y ago
I wonder how they will manage the market differences. For example, in the UK the majority of cars at the level Tesla is going for are business vehicles. In that category, the tax laws make it such that the best thing to do is to lease a car. Which is why you get business leasing options from every manufacturer: BMW: http://www.bmwbusinesspartnership.co.uk/ http://www.bmwbusinesspartnership.co.uk/ Mercedes: http://www2.mercedes-benz.co.uk/content/unitedkingdom/mpc/mpc_unitedkingdom_website/en/home_mpc/passengercars/home/corporate_sales0/fleet.html http://www2.mercedes-benz.co.uk/content/unitedkingdom/mpc/mp... Lexus: http://www.lexus.co.uk/company-cars/company-car-driver/2013/#/CompanyCarDriver http://www.lexus.co.uk/company-cars/company-car-driver/2013/... Basically, company car perks are paid in cash in monthly installments. Everyone with a business vehicle leases the vehicle using the cash they are paid. Tesla may sell a fair few cars in the UK, but if they want to put a lot of cars on the road they'll need to package the car in a way that will attract this market. I'm sure similar market differences exist throughout Europe too, where local conditions mean that buying outright isn't usually the best deal.
- arethuza 13y ago
  People keep saying that "Europeans don't drive much" but there are quite a few models from European manufacturers with very high ranges - over a 1000 miles. And they seem pretty popular with the people I know who have (and need) company cars.
  - 001sky 13y ago
    You mean that diesel extends the range, is that the variable you are missing? At 20 mpg you need 50 gallons of fuel. At 50 mpg you need 20g. Cars with 20g fuel usually get 20mpg for a 400 mile range. On the flip side, many more models with diesel have higher ranges because the fuel capacity is set for petrol (20g) and swapping in diesel increases the energy payload per unit volume (40-50mpg).
    - arethuza 13y ago
      Possibly - I wouldn't say my driving patterns are that unusual and I live in a small European country and I wouldn't buy a car that didn't have at least a 450 mile range and I know people (particularly in Germany) who make much longer trips very regularly and who have specifically purchased cars with very high ranges.
dharma1 13y ago
Think you can already buy the left hand drive version in the UK, they have a showroom at Westfield. Haven't seen anyone drive one in London but I think they will do well, personally I'll wait for one after Model X once battery tech is better
codfrantic 13y ago
I've seen many Model S' driving around Amsterdam. Mainly because I filter through the traffic jams on my commute. Yesterday I was at a company which had two parked in front (connected to a charger on an EV-only parking spot next to a Plug in Prius). One of the main reasons Tesla S' are this popular is that as a business owner you can get tax breaks for electric vehicles which can change the actual price you pay from €80.000 to ~€35.000...(Curious when that gets shut down by the government...)

162 points by austenallred 13y ago

imdsm 13y ago

This is great news. I'm a big fan of Tesla and would love to drive one, but being in the UK, we lack quick chargers. Not too bad if you've got a few hours spare to charge. Interesting map of UK charging points: http://www.nextgreencar.com/electric-cars/charging-points.php http://www.nextgreencar.com/electric-cars/charging-points.ph...

cstross 13y ago
A secondary issue for the UK is that we're densely populated and our housing stock is, on average, 75 years old. Lots of dwellings predate the automobile and/or lack a garage or a garden (US: yard) on which to build one. Consequently, home charging is less of an option.
- tehwalrus 13y ago
  you do need your own driveway to charge, its true, totally illegal/unsafe to run cables over the pavement (US: sidewalk). Or you just need to live very close to one of the few charging points that do exist. There's one about 30 yards from my front door in London, quite cool if you actually need a car here...
- jseliger 13y ago
  our housing stock is, on average, 75 years old Tangential but relevant here: "15 Facts That Reveal The Utter Insanity Of Britain’s Housing Market" (http://www.buzzfeed.com/dlknowles/britains-dysfunctional-property-market-in-gi-fm44 http://www.buzzfeed.com/dlknowles/britains-dysfunctional-pro...)
  - lclarkmichalek 13y ago
    What a horrid article. Fuck history, fuck the environment, house prices are too high. I'm going to have to agree with Jamie Marshall in the comments: "The author of this is clearly an idiot."
    - Symmetry 13y ago
      Why do you think building new houses is bad for the environment? In the short term you're paying for materials, but that'll be made up pretty quickly by better insulation and, if you get multi-family dwellings, a lower surface area to volume ratio. And shorter commutes also tend to strongly decrease transpiration energy use. Clearly you would be losing historical character if you did what the article suggests, but from what I can see all the environmental arguments are on the other side, unless you think that restricting the housing supply will reduce the number of people.
      - jseliger 13y ago
        Why do you think building new houses is bad for the environment? Indeed: per Edward Glaeser's book The Triumph of the City, denser cities are much more environmentally friendly than suburbs, exurbs, or rural areas. Everyone has to live somewhere.
  - vidarh 13y ago
    I don't think his point is very well made, though. First, the issue is not so much planning permission, as in all the externalities that the planning process seeks to capture. In many parts of London at least, the councils and planning offices are falling over themselves to be helpful to developers, but they still have responsibilities to residents they need to be mindful of. While it is true there are some limitations on building up in central London, for example, vast areas of London is not built up to anywhere near the legal limits. As we see, as there are massive amounts of building projects in Central London aiming to increase density. Over the last ten years, for example, large parts of the Thames have seen buildings of 10+ stories going up next to the river on old industrial sites, with many towers of 20+ stories. As for the green belt... Croydon, where I live, is out in zone 5, bordering the green belt. It's one of the greenest boroughs in London, and also one of the largest (5th, after Bromley, Hillingdon, Havering and Barnet). Yet it also have large industrial areas, a large business district with substantial space for re-development, and several empty plots cleared for re-development. Space is not the limiting factor for developers here. In fact, there is space on vacant plots immediately adjacent to the main railway station for many thousands of new flats, several of which have planning permission. We also have massive areas of 1930's terraced houses, on plots of about 100-200 m^2, and total liveable area of about 70-100m^2 over two floors. There's massive room for increasing density there just by building 4-8 story buildings. There, certainly, there's lots of room for streamlining the planning process. But hardly anyone are applying for smaller projects like that. Typical new developments in Croydon are 20 floors or above, with one 44 floor tower going up, planning applications going in for a combination of a 16 and 31 floor tower next to the station, planning permissions near being granted for a range of buildings from about 10 to 30 floors next to the station, a major mixed project including other towers in the same range have had permission for years. And there are a number of other similar projects. The thing is, this is not cheap, nor is it fast, and furthermore: It takes a lot of time to fill these buildings in the current economy, which has also slowed various of the building projects that does have permission. Altitude 25 - one of our existing 25 floor buildings, is still not sold out after several years. There's no reason to go into the green belt when there are such massive amounts of land available to build on that is still under-developed. More importantly, though: It's easy to fantasise about increasing density, but increased density has massive societal repercussions that someone need to pay for: - You need more schools. Croydon is already struggling to handle the increase in primary school demands from the new development that is happening. My son goes to a new academy which, when full, will take 750 students. The current classes are full, and all the other nearby schools are near capacity again, though, despite adding classrooms and increasing students per class. - You need more hospitals. Croydon's biggest hospital is near capacity. Increase density much, and massive investment will need to happen to expand hospital capacity. - Policing, fire department, higher education, sanitation, etc. etc. - the investments needed costs a lot of money, and much of it needs to happen before significant housing capacity increases unless you want existing residents to go through years of pain while services catch up. Ultimately you may end up paying less per tax payer than before by increasing density, but in the meantime you may be looking at substantial capital investments to prepare. - Transport. My street is one of the main roads connecting Croydon centre to one of the smaller town centres in the borough, and two of the busier train stations. It is already congested during rush hour, and buses are full. Increase density more, and substantial investments would be needed in improving transport, or you'd cause massive issued for tens of thousands of residents. You won't get more people onto the buses withought buying more buses and adding more drivers. The biggest train station is already being massively overhauled, because it is at capacity and additional highrises nearby will push it way above capacity from additional commuters. It is already one of the busiest stations in England, and a chokepoint for large parts of the train traffic from parts of the South coast to central London. They've set aside space for two extra tracks to terminate, but where would the trains go? The train junctions North of East Croydon are running at capacity most of the day, and large parts of the track is running at near capacity, and the areas next to them are built up almost all the way. The investments required to substantially increase rail capacity will run in the billions - someone needs to pay... A lot of this is part of the planning process. You can not just massively increase density without addressing these issues, and how these things are going to be paid for.
onion2k 13y ago
London is obviously first, interesting that the second most prolific place for charging points is around Sunderland in the North East ... where Nissan make their Leaf electric car.
- nicholassmith 13y ago
  The North East in general has quite a few (I live in Middlesbrough), I assume as a side effect of the Sunderland plant. Unfortunately I don't think I've seen an electric car here, but if Tesla release I imagine that could change.

bausson 13y ago

A push for electric vehicles in Europe is a really good thing, but I'm not sure the market is exactly ready. On the other hand, Tesla has better getting their supercharger network ready before the sales catch up, the other way around would be bad for the brand. And seeing supercharger on the roadside when going to fill one's tank can get people thinking, given gas price.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
toomuchtodo 13y ago
I would argue Europe is a better market than the US because the distances are shorter (how much of Western Europe can fit in Texas?), so there would be less of a range anxiety discussion.
- Shivetya 13y ago
  by that token Europe doesn't necessarily need an electric car with the same range possibilities as the Tesla S. The real issue is, how large is the market for hundred thousand dollar electrics? I would think they need to keep jumping into markets because demand cannot be that great or sustaining at those price points. Many luxury buyers have no interest whatsoever in electrics. buyers of Rolls are one such type of buyer. When Rolls trotted out an all electric and took it across the world owners of existing Rolls were not interested. Europe does produce quite a few 100k cars but they tend to be performance exotics, last I checked the main market is much further down stream and for much much smaller cars than the S (which is big even in the US)
- bausson 13y ago
  Shorter distances is a good argument, but there also others differences which aren't advantage. Most of my observations are from France, since it's where I live, but it should be correct for Germany, Spain, UK at least. Plus : * shorter distances * higher gas price in EU than US Minus : * people usually commute by public transportation. In big cities, they don't even own a car. There is no place to park it, and it's kinda useless, since it take longer to go somewhere by car than by public transport. * For medium distance (100~1000 km), people use both car and train. It's maybe 50/50, depending on the need of car at destination. You are always more independent by car, but by train you arrive quicker, and rested (a good rail network helping). * On the 'social' side of things, the car ownership is not a thing the way it is in america (or is it a generation thing / Hollywood exaggeration, I don't know). European young adult buy a car when they need one, not as soon as possible to show they can support themselves.

arethuza 13y ago

Out of interest, how many other car models have been a success in the United States market then sold successfully in Europe?

dangrossman 13y ago
About 1 in 5 Model S cars coming off the Tesla assembly line headed to Europe last year. They're not starting from nothing; the Model S was the best-selling car of any make in Norway, and has sold at least hundreds of units into 6 European countries. Small numbers compared to the incumbents, but certainly high enough to matter to Tesla which only sells some thousands of cars each quarter.
- kalms 13y ago
  I get the feeling it's doing fine in Denmark as well. Seeing them more and more each day.
  - mercurial 13y ago
    Haven't seen any around Århus but I'll keep an eye out.
    - kalms 13y ago
      Aarhus* :P
- arethuza 13y ago
  I was just curious about whether Tesla have achieved something that has failed other US manufacturers - create a car that appeals in the US home market and in Europe.
  - pjc50 13y ago
    Tesla lack the traditional ugliness and fuel inefficiency of US cars; the model S looks like a Jaguar but is cheap to run. Nor is it too large.

tehwalrus 13y ago

I can't afford one of the Model Ss, but I am totally in line for when they make the budget model in a few years. Very excited that they'll be making a proper-hand-drive one for the UK too, now all I need is a house (hah) with a driveway (even worse)...

dabeeeenster 13y ago
The driveway requirement is an interesting problem. I live ~7 miles from the center of London. Driveways are very, very scarce, and I can't guarantee being able to park in front of my house due to the number of cars on my road. I also don't know how legal/practical trailing a cable from my house is. I basically can't own a Tesla (even though I would like to!) as I would never be able to charge it.
- pjc50 13y ago
  If I lived that close to central London, I don't think I'd bother owning a car and would rely on TFL.
  - dabeeeenster 13y ago
    Ah but I have two small children...Besides, that's not the point...
  - vidarh 13y ago
    I'm 38 and have never even had a drivers license. I grew up near Oslo, Norway, and moved to London when I was 25 - it's always been so easy to just use public transport that I've never gotten around to it. Keep thinking about it, as it'd be nice to have a license for the occasional car trip for vacations etc., but it's pretty far down the list of "nice to have"'s. Can spend a lot on taxis for what a car would cost me.
- patrickk 13y ago
  Hopefully a combination of superchargers, EVs in public parking spaces in shopping centers (for example, to attract wealthy EV owners to shop there) and arrangements to have EV charging points near work places will serve people in this situation.

melvinmt 13y ago

At rougly $9.70/gallon for regular gas, Europe makes the most sense for electric vehicles.

Mvandenbergh 13y ago

On the one hand, the much higher population density of Western Europe means that range and charger density issues are much easier to solve. On the other hand, for precisely that reason many people don't have drive-ways to home-charge their cars.

DocG 13y ago

Rumors say that canceled cars are being offered to Estonia first if contacted. Also, there is already two Teslas driving around. (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=et&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=et&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Ftarbija24.postimees.ee%2F2717254%2Ftesla-teeb-eesti-autohuvilistele-eripakkumise http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=et&tl=en&js=n&prev=... take with a pinch of salt) Apparently there is already charging network http://elmo.ee/laadimispunktide-vorgustik/ http://elmo.ee/laadimispunktide-vorgustik/ (compatible thou? I doubt) And you can get up to 18 000 euros backing from goverment when buying electric car. (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=et&sl=et&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Felmo.ee%2Ftingimused%2F http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=et&sl=et&tl=en&u=ht...)

greglindahl 13y ago
If that's the Chademo network (Wikipedia says there were 148 of those in Estonia as of March 2012), then yes, Tesla is releasing a Chademo adapter in a few weeks. It charges at 150 miles/hr, slower than a supercharger and much faster than a standard L2 240v charger.

buro9 13y ago

I wonder how they will manage the market differences. For example, in the UK the majority of cars at the level Tesla is going for are business vehicles. In that category, the tax laws make it such that the best thing to do is to lease a car. Which is why you get business leasing options from every manufacturer: BMW: http://www.bmwbusinesspartnership.co.uk/ http://www.bmwbusinesspartnership.co.uk/ Mercedes: http://www2.mercedes-benz.co.uk/content/unitedkingdom/mpc/mpc_unitedkingdom_website/en/home_mpc/passengercars/home/corporate_sales0/fleet.html http://www2.mercedes-benz.co.uk/content/unitedkingdom/mpc/mp... Lexus: http://www.lexus.co.uk/company-cars/company-car-driver/2013/#/CompanyCarDriver http://www.lexus.co.uk/company-cars/company-car-driver/2013/... Basically, company car perks are paid in cash in monthly installments. Everyone with a business vehicle leases the vehicle using the cash they are paid. Tesla may sell a fair few cars in the UK, but if they want to put a lot of cars on the road they'll need to package the car in a way that will attract this market. I'm sure similar market differences exist throughout Europe too, where local conditions mean that buying outright isn't usually the best deal.

arethuza 13y ago
People keep saying that "Europeans don't drive much" but there are quite a few models from European manufacturers with very high ranges - over a 1000 miles. And they seem pretty popular with the people I know who have (and need) company cars.
- 001sky 13y ago
  You mean that diesel extends the range, is that the variable you are missing? At 20 mpg you need 50 gallons of fuel. At 50 mpg you need 20g. Cars with 20g fuel usually get 20mpg for a 400 mile range. On the flip side, many more models with diesel have higher ranges because the fuel capacity is set for petrol (20g) and swapping in diesel increases the energy payload per unit volume (40-50mpg).
  - arethuza 13y ago
    Possibly - I wouldn't say my driving patterns are that unusual and I live in a small European country and I wouldn't buy a car that didn't have at least a 450 mile range and I know people (particularly in Germany) who make much longer trips very regularly and who have specifically purchased cars with very high ranges.

dharma1 13y ago

Think you can already buy the left hand drive version in the UK, they have a showroom at Westfield. Haven't seen anyone drive one in London but I think they will do well, personally I'll wait for one after Model X once battery tech is better

codfrantic 13y ago

I've seen many Model S' driving around Amsterdam. Mainly because I filter through the traffic jams on my commute. Yesterday I was at a company which had two parked in front (connected to a charger on an EV-only parking spot next to a Plug in Prius). One of the main reasons Tesla S' are this popular is that as a business owner you can get tax breaks for electric vehicles which can change the actual price you pay from €80.000 to ~€35.000...(Curious when that gets shut down by the government...)