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I often wonder why a PHP killer hasn't yet been created. I don't mean a Ruby or another vastly different language. I mean a language similar in approach to PH

I often wonder why a PHP killer hasn't yet been created. I don't mean a Ruby or another vastly different language. I mean a language similar in approach to PHP, but with the gotcha's removed, some order and consistency introduced into the API, and a few changes to the defaults. Open source, free, and on all major OS's.

eddd 13y ago
check what PyPy did (or is doing with PHP).
- dagw 13y ago
  Do you mean HipHop?
- uolot 13y ago
  Could you please explain it a bit or provide a link?
  - chrisguitarguy 13y ago
    http://morepypy.blogspot.com/2012/07/hello-everyone.html http://morepypy.blogspot.com/2012/07/hello-everyone.html > I'm proud to release the result of a Facebook-sponsored study on the feasibility of using the RPython toolchain to produce a PHP interpreter. The rules were simple: two months; one person; get as close to PHP as possible, implementing enough warts and corner cases to be reasonably sure that it answers hard problems in the PHP language. The outcome is called Hippy VM and implements most of the PHP 1.0 language (functions, arrays, ints, floats and strings).
    - uolot 13y ago
      Thanks, seems very impressive
  - acomjean 13y ago
    HipHop its Facebook sponsored just in time compiler for php. HHVM (Hip Hop Virtual Machine). My understanding is its 95%ish compatible with most php. They're working using framework unit tests to get the percent higher. http://www.hhvm.com/frameworks/ http://www.hhvm.com/frameworks/ https://github.com/facebook/hhvm https://github.com/facebook/hhvm
mercurial 13y ago
How many products gained market share with a slogan like "we're like $this_free_other_product, but cleaned up, incompatible and without libraries"?
- oblio 13y ago
  SVN. It actually won via a killer library/app - TortoiseSVN. But it was cleaned up, and mostly incompatible - after all all the commands had changed from cvs to svn :) A cleaned up PHP would be interesting but it would need a truly killer app. Basically make a PHP clone except for the bad parts. I'd say that the killer app would be a very to use framework that provided various security best practices already built in. And a PHP clone would need a 0 installation process - no messing around with shell commands or root access. Just copy your .phpclone files and you're set to go.
whichdan 13y ago
Some people have tried forking PHP, and the general response is mediocre at best. The big thing PHP has going for it is the huge amount of open source software, and the number of webhosts which support PHP by default. Most of the webhosts can barely keep PHP updated, and the ones who don't, justify it by wanting to avoid breaking backward compatibility with open source software. Getting widespread adoption for a PHP alternative would be a serious feat.
phillmv 13y ago
Because any version of PHP that removed gotched and made the APIs consistent would break compatibility - and at that stage you're pretty close to moving to a different ecosystem in the first place. Look at Py3 vs Py2. At the end of the day, the way I see it, the true advantage of PHP was its lower barrier to entry. Now that this has mostly been resolved via PaaS hosting, it seems to me we're moving to a word where Node is the new default, because Javascript.
prostoalex 13y ago
http://www.sitepoint.com/look-hack-php-replacement-hhvm/ http://www.sitepoint.com/look-hack-php-replacement-hhvm/

eddd 13y ago

check what PyPy did (or is doing with PHP).

dagw 13y ago
Do you mean HipHop?
uolot 13y ago
Could you please explain it a bit or provide a link?
- chrisguitarguy 13y ago
  http://morepypy.blogspot.com/2012/07/hello-everyone.html http://morepypy.blogspot.com/2012/07/hello-everyone.html > I'm proud to release the result of a Facebook-sponsored study on the feasibility of using the RPython toolchain to produce a PHP interpreter. The rules were simple: two months; one person; get as close to PHP as possible, implementing enough warts and corner cases to be reasonably sure that it answers hard problems in the PHP language. The outcome is called Hippy VM and implements most of the PHP 1.0 language (functions, arrays, ints, floats and strings).
  - uolot 13y ago
    Thanks, seems very impressive
- acomjean 13y ago
  HipHop its Facebook sponsored just in time compiler for php. HHVM (Hip Hop Virtual Machine). My understanding is its 95%ish compatible with most php. They're working using framework unit tests to get the percent higher. http://www.hhvm.com/frameworks/ http://www.hhvm.com/frameworks/ https://github.com/facebook/hhvm https://github.com/facebook/hhvm

mercurial 13y ago

How many products gained market share with a slogan like "we're like $this_free_other_product, but cleaned up, incompatible and without libraries"?

oblio 13y ago
SVN. It actually won via a killer library/app - TortoiseSVN. But it was cleaned up, and mostly incompatible - after all all the commands had changed from cvs to svn :) A cleaned up PHP would be interesting but it would need a truly killer app. Basically make a PHP clone except for the bad parts. I'd say that the killer app would be a very to use framework that provided various security best practices already built in. And a PHP clone would need a 0 installation process - no messing around with shell commands or root access. Just copy your .phpclone files and you're set to go.

whichdan 13y ago

Some people have tried forking PHP, and the general response is mediocre at best. The big thing PHP has going for it is the huge amount of open source software, and the number of webhosts which support PHP by default. Most of the webhosts can barely keep PHP updated, and the ones who don't, justify it by wanting to avoid breaking backward compatibility with open source software. Getting widespread adoption for a PHP alternative would be a serious feat.

phillmv 13y ago

Because any version of PHP that removed gotched and made the APIs consistent would break compatibility - and at that stage you're pretty close to moving to a different ecosystem in the first place. Look at Py3 vs Py2. At the end of the day, the way I see it, the true advantage of PHP was its lower barrier to entry. Now that this has mostly been resolved via PaaS hosting, it seems to me we're moving to a word where Node is the new default, because Javascript.

prostoalex 13y ago

http://www.sitepoint.com/look-hack-php-replacement-hhvm/ http://www.sitepoint.com/look-hack-php-replacement-hhvm/