6 ms·

Ask HN: Do we need another email service?

9 points by udaycoder 13y ago

I got a chance to work with email recently and thinking of starting an email service, but wondering do we need one now? if it is paid, what makes you pay for it?

Ihmahr 13y ago
Yes, we do. I would pay for it if it is not ridiculously expensive (mykolab) and has decent privacy AND encryption. Servers in america == bad. That icelandic one from recently (forgot the name) I can not take too seriously, since they want to roll their own browser that will basically be a bad version of Tor browser and also some other stuff they want to build their selves.
- julianwachholz 13y ago
  I'm guessing you mean Mailpile[0], but those guys are only providing an email client (which you can run both from a thumb drive or on a server). [0]: https://mailpile.is/ https://mailpile.is/
  - Ihmahr 13y ago
    No not mailpile. It was an actual email service. Maybe inv... something.
- amirmc 13y ago
  It sounds like you're talking about Mailpile, but if so, I think you've misunderstood it. If it's something else mail-related from Iceland, I'd like to know more.
  - Ihmahr 13y ago
    No not mailpile. It was an actual email service. Maybe inv... something.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
jimmytidey 13y ago
The missing email feature I'm interested in is analytics - I couldn't find anything the last time I looked. Who takes up most of my time, as measured by the number of words I've written to them? Who is worst at responding to me? Can you do anything with sentiment analysis?
- udaycoder 13y ago
  Yes, this is one of the features I am thinking.
hobbes300 13y ago
IF and only IF the spam filters are as good as Gmail.
- milani 13y ago
  Then use gmail!!
blueskin_ 13y ago
If it can differentiate itself by being private and secure, sure. That means non-US hosting, zero knowledge storage, PFS on all SSL/TLS, properly defined security policies from a company side to reduce social engineering, secure architecture, etc. Many people on HN probably either host their own email or considered it, but a good secure service is better to sell to people without that technical knowledge who don't want to be a Google/MS/Apple/Yahoo/etc product. I've pointed less technical people towards MyKolab before; they are a good model for how an email service should be done.
dd3141 13y ago
I'd be open to a new open service, if and only if it really went above and beyond our current expectations of email providers today. I think gmail(what I currently use) is great and I'm satisfied with it but it doesn't mean that I wouldn't switch if something could out-do it in certain arenas. I think the obvious factors of security,privacy and UI/UX would be the things that would really have to shine for me to open my wallet. I'm not sure but I think that the market has some pretty decent offerings and people might not be on the lookout for a new email service but to make an example; I wasn't looking for a new text editor when I came across Sublime. Sometimes thing are so great that they are just worth trying. It would be a large undertaking on your part but who knows how it could turn out? Good luck.
bmaeser 13y ago
yes we need another mailprovider, with all the killerfeatures of gmail: lots of storage / archive contacts / sync kalender / sync decent privacy/ encryption servers in EU i dont care about webmail/mailclient.
- slashdotaccount 13y ago
  Try https://mailbox.org https://mailbox.org
brunooo 13y ago
We tested demand late last year and relative numbers didn't look too convincing. https://www.minervafabric.com/ https://www.minervafabric.com/ Feel free to ping me for more insight or specific data.
Thiz 13y ago
Yes, it's all about branding. Most legible names are taken in all big players, so a new service would see an influx of users trying to secure their vanity names. And that, my friend, will occur for as long as a million human beings are born each day.
- BWStearns 13y ago
  rema.il If I had the slightest inclination to make a mail service I would buy this name, but I don't, so have fun.
NKCSS 13y ago
Paying for Google to host the e-mail for all companies; ran private exchange before; it's just not worth it :) Imho, it's extremely hard to beat what Google offers.
- a3n 13y ago
  There's one thing that Google cannot offer: not being Google. That's a feature for me and many others.
pera 13y ago
Location is an essential issue today for e-mail services: don't expected much enthusiasm if your servers are in USA
cliveowen 13y ago
I don't think we need another email service. The backend stuff tends to be very complex and it would be a waste of time to reinvent the wheel. I do think there' s a lot of potential for improving the user experience on the client side, finding new ways to simplify and augment the current offering. Too bad the main player in this space (Gmail) doesn't offer the kind of API access needed for a deep integration, maybe in the future.
- udaycoder 13y ago
  It is true that backend stuff is complex. My idea is to improve the existing one and do some cool stuff on the UI. I strongly believe that there is scope for many players in this segment.
- a3n 13y ago
  > I don't think we need another email service. The backend stuff tends to be very complex Hmmm, there's an interesting idea for a business, Back End As a Service. You provide rock solid email back end, and your customers are email "providers" who distinguish themselves on features, price, charity, whatever, all of them using your back end services.
gregmorton 13y ago
I'll die for an emailbox where I could rearrange my mails on the fly.
- gregcohn 13y ago
  I love this idea.
a3n 13y ago
Yes, we need another paid email service. Competition is good. Besides the obvious gmail, I think your fundamental competitor in the not-gmail space is fastmail.fm or something like it. If you think you can make a go of it at those prices, plus or minus an order of magnitude, then have at it. Mail is not for the faint of heart. Besides the technical details (which are harder than most people assume), you have to operate in a way that you earn and keep the trust of your customers. You have to not lose mail, you have to stay up. You have to accept that you'll be an unwilling partner to the NSA and other law enforcement. You'll also be a target of under the table surveillance by the NSA and other spies and criminals. You have to get email fundamentally, rock solidly right. Above that there's lots of room for features and services more or less related to email. You're going to have to work hard to peel me away from fastmail, and you'll have to work even harder to peel everyone else away from gmail, or even to get them to notice you. I look forward to your Show HN (truly).
klimatika 13y ago
Few years ago, there was email service called Zenbe. It was cool and ahead of time and I've seen it as only real competitor to gmail. But for some reason they got out of business (I don't remember why). Search for Zenbe and maybe you will find some clues.
austinstorm 13y ago
Any innovation in email is welcome by me.
tim333 13y ago
I'd like a service that unifies my email with messages on other services I use eg facebook, Whatsapp, Linkedin, SMS etc so if I've been chatting about say going to Vietnam I can search for that in all sources. Maybe even posts on HN. Basically anything I write that people reply to.
- MetaCosm 13y ago
  Yeah, the walled gardens are hellish. Makes it very hard to manage things... sadly, it is getting worse not better.
uberspot 13y ago
It would be cool if besides privacy for users you contributed/used already existing open source mail related software. You know, follow the model of those companies that are based on and expand oss.
BWStearns 13y ago
I might pay a buck a year for an email service that didn't serve ads, had a gmail-level quality and had solid privacy/security baked in. That said I tend to steer clear of the lavabit-esque providers who go out of their way to advertise their over-my-dead-body stance on handing over emails because it makes them a target and tends to make people associate you with paranoids (even if they are after you :)

9 points by udaycoder 13y ago

I got a chance to work with email recently and thinking of starting an email service, but wondering do we need one now? if it is paid, what makes you pay for it?

Ihmahr 13y ago

Yes, we do. I would pay for it if it is not ridiculously expensive (mykolab) and has decent privacy AND encryption. Servers in america == bad. That icelandic one from recently (forgot the name) I can not take too seriously, since they want to roll their own browser that will basically be a bad version of Tor browser and also some other stuff they want to build their selves.

julianwachholz 13y ago
I'm guessing you mean Mailpile[0], but those guys are only providing an email client (which you can run both from a thumb drive or on a server). [0]: https://mailpile.is/ https://mailpile.is/
- Ihmahr 13y ago
  No not mailpile. It was an actual email service. Maybe inv... something.
amirmc 13y ago
It sounds like you're talking about Mailpile, but if so, I think you've misunderstood it. If it's something else mail-related from Iceland, I'd like to know more.
- Ihmahr 13y ago
  No not mailpile. It was an actual email service. Maybe inv... something.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

jimmytidey 13y ago

The missing email feature I'm interested in is analytics - I couldn't find anything the last time I looked. Who takes up most of my time, as measured by the number of words I've written to them? Who is worst at responding to me? Can you do anything with sentiment analysis?

udaycoder 13y ago
Yes, this is one of the features I am thinking.

hobbes300 13y ago

IF and only IF the spam filters are as good as Gmail.

milani 13y ago
Then use gmail!!

blueskin_ 13y ago

If it can differentiate itself by being private and secure, sure. That means non-US hosting, zero knowledge storage, PFS on all SSL/TLS, properly defined security policies from a company side to reduce social engineering, secure architecture, etc. Many people on HN probably either host their own email or considered it, but a good secure service is better to sell to people without that technical knowledge who don't want to be a Google/MS/Apple/Yahoo/etc product. I've pointed less technical people towards MyKolab before; they are a good model for how an email service should be done.

dd3141 13y ago

I'd be open to a new open service, if and only if it really went above and beyond our current expectations of email providers today. I think gmail(what I currently use) is great and I'm satisfied with it but it doesn't mean that I wouldn't switch if something could out-do it in certain arenas. I think the obvious factors of security,privacy and UI/UX would be the things that would really have to shine for me to open my wallet. I'm not sure but I think that the market has some pretty decent offerings and people might not be on the lookout for a new email service but to make an example; I wasn't looking for a new text editor when I came across Sublime. Sometimes thing are so great that they are just worth trying. It would be a large undertaking on your part but who knows how it could turn out? Good luck.

bmaeser 13y ago

yes we need another mailprovider, with all the killerfeatures of gmail: lots of storage / archive contacts / sync kalender / sync decent privacy/ encryption servers in EU i dont care about webmail/mailclient.

slashdotaccount 13y ago
Try https://mailbox.org https://mailbox.org

brunooo 13y ago

We tested demand late last year and relative numbers didn't look too convincing. https://www.minervafabric.com/ https://www.minervafabric.com/ Feel free to ping me for more insight or specific data.

Thiz 13y ago

Yes, it's all about branding. Most legible names are taken in all big players, so a new service would see an influx of users trying to secure their vanity names. And that, my friend, will occur for as long as a million human beings are born each day.

BWStearns 13y ago
rema.il If I had the slightest inclination to make a mail service I would buy this name, but I don't, so have fun.

NKCSS 13y ago

Paying for Google to host the e-mail for all companies; ran private exchange before; it's just not worth it :) Imho, it's extremely hard to beat what Google offers.

a3n 13y ago
There's one thing that Google cannot offer: not being Google. That's a feature for me and many others.

pera 13y ago

Location is an essential issue today for e-mail services: don't expected much enthusiasm if your servers are in USA

cliveowen 13y ago

I don't think we need another email service. The backend stuff tends to be very complex and it would be a waste of time to reinvent the wheel. I do think there' s a lot of potential for improving the user experience on the client side, finding new ways to simplify and augment the current offering. Too bad the main player in this space (Gmail) doesn't offer the kind of API access needed for a deep integration, maybe in the future.

udaycoder 13y ago
It is true that backend stuff is complex. My idea is to improve the existing one and do some cool stuff on the UI. I strongly believe that there is scope for many players in this segment.
a3n 13y ago
> I don't think we need another email service. The backend stuff tends to be very complex Hmmm, there's an interesting idea for a business, Back End As a Service. You provide rock solid email back end, and your customers are email "providers" who distinguish themselves on features, price, charity, whatever, all of them using your back end services.

gregmorton 13y ago

I'll die for an emailbox where I could rearrange my mails on the fly.

gregcohn 13y ago
I love this idea.

a3n 13y ago

Yes, we need another paid email service. Competition is good. Besides the obvious gmail, I think your fundamental competitor in the not-gmail space is fastmail.fm or something like it. If you think you can make a go of it at those prices, plus or minus an order of magnitude, then have at it. Mail is not for the faint of heart. Besides the technical details (which are harder than most people assume), you have to operate in a way that you earn and keep the trust of your customers. You have to not lose mail, you have to stay up. You have to accept that you'll be an unwilling partner to the NSA and other law enforcement. You'll also be a target of under the table surveillance by the NSA and other spies and criminals. You have to get email fundamentally, rock solidly right. Above that there's lots of room for features and services more or less related to email. You're going to have to work hard to peel me away from fastmail, and you'll have to work even harder to peel everyone else away from gmail, or even to get them to notice you. I look forward to your Show HN (truly).

klimatika 13y ago

Few years ago, there was email service called Zenbe. It was cool and ahead of time and I've seen it as only real competitor to gmail. But for some reason they got out of business (I don't remember why). Search for Zenbe and maybe you will find some clues.

austinstorm 13y ago

Any innovation in email is welcome by me.

tim333 13y ago

I'd like a service that unifies my email with messages on other services I use eg facebook, Whatsapp, Linkedin, SMS etc so if I've been chatting about say going to Vietnam I can search for that in all sources. Maybe even posts on HN. Basically anything I write that people reply to.

MetaCosm 13y ago
Yeah, the walled gardens are hellish. Makes it very hard to manage things... sadly, it is getting worse not better.

uberspot 13y ago

It would be cool if besides privacy for users you contributed/used already existing open source mail related software. You know, follow the model of those companies that are based on and expand oss.

BWStearns 13y ago

I might pay a buck a year for an email service that didn't serve ads, had a gmail-level quality and had solid privacy/security baked in. That said I tend to steer clear of the lavabit-esque providers who go out of their way to advertise their over-my-dead-body stance on handing over emails because it makes them a target and tends to make people associate you with paranoids (even if they are after you :)