5 ms·

7. Criminal investigation 8. JAIL!

by swombat 13y ago

arethuza 13y ago
It'll be interesting to see how much resources the relevant law enforcement agency assigns to this case and how succesful they are at apprehending the culprits. NB I think I'll re-read Halting State: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halting_State http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halting_State
- silvertonia 13y ago
  It's an interesting question of how much resources law enforcement should assign to a case like this. Many fierce proponents of Bitcoins are the anarchy-leaning libertarians. Its appeal is that government agencies can't track and tax it (or have a tougher time with it) While I do think a crime has occurred, it feels a bit like collecting a benefit you refused to pay into.
smoyer 13y ago
Maybe ... but the governments are terribly keen on Bitcoin and it would be easy for them to say "we don't believe a crime has been committed". I think it's far safer for the Bitcoin community as a whole to police themselves, but determining how to add "self-regulation" in a decentralized way may take some time.
- arethuza 13y ago
  Well, the UK Revenue and Customs service seems to have a pretty clear view on Bitcoin: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/briefs/vat/brief0914.htm http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/briefs/vat/brief0914.htm If the government regards something as having value it wouldn't seem unreasonable to expect them to regard theft of assets in this form to be a crime.
- pron 13y ago
  The irony! I've just smiled to myself picturing those guys coming together and then slowly re-learning everything we know about statesmanship and politics. Like the moment they first realize different people have different values and want different things. Then they're going to come up with the idea of democracy and a parliament. Only this time around it will be the Aspergers among us who try to figure out how to influence people. :) But, of course, the best bit will be when they, so rationally, decide to give up the final ruling power to a super-intelligent AI, and then the look on their faces when the AI decides to do something that, while 100% rational, nobody wants.
  - acjohnson55 13y ago
    It's like NIH Syndrome, but applied to the basic fabric of society.
pjc50 13y ago
There's not much sign of this happening so far ... Besides, isn't lack of effective prosecution of failed financial institutions a reason often cited for using bitcoin?
ry0ohki 13y ago
I'm trying to imagine a jury of your peers understanding the crime. "So they stole internet money? I'm confused."
- gus_massa 13y ago
  It's easy to explain. Bitcoins are like American Airlines miles. If someone enter a miles account of another person, and use the miles to buy or receive a reward it, then I'd call the miles "stolen". Perhaps we need a lawyer to pick the exact name of the crime. The difference is that Bitconin is decentralized, so there in no equivalent of A.A. to handle the servers. But it's easy to understand that a number in a computer screen is valuable. Well, most of the dollars are only a number in a computer screen, not real life bills.
jellicle 13y ago
The list of bitcoin businesses that have stolen all their customers' money and fled is quite long; many pages at this point. Can you give me a list of all the people who have been criminally investigated and put in jail for such theft?
JonFish85 13y ago
I'd be curious how that would shake down. If someone were to claim that they lost $USD 500k worth of Bitcoin, I imagine there'd be someone at the IRS who would be quite interested to look into how much this person paid on capital gains / income tax on the appreciated value of said bitcoin.... The person could be in for quite a tax bill!
- danielahn 13y ago
  In the US at least, I believe theft losses are tax deductible. That would be quite the unfortunate scenario though.

7. Criminal investigation 8. JAIL!

by swombat 13y ago

7. Criminal investigation 8. JAIL!

It'll be interesting to see how much resources the relevant law enforcement agency assigns to this case and how succesful they are at apprehending the culprits. NB I think I'll re-read Halting State: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halting_State http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halting_State

silvertonia 13y ago
It's an interesting question of how much resources law enforcement should assign to a case like this. Many fierce proponents of Bitcoins are the anarchy-leaning libertarians. Its appeal is that government agencies can't track and tax it (or have a tougher time with it) While I do think a crime has occurred, it feels a bit like collecting a benefit you refused to pay into.

smoyer 13y ago

Maybe ... but the governments are terribly keen on Bitcoin and it would be easy for them to say "we don't believe a crime has been committed". I think it's far safer for the Bitcoin community as a whole to police themselves, but determining how to add "self-regulation" in a decentralized way may take some time.

arethuza 13y ago
Well, the UK Revenue and Customs service seems to have a pretty clear view on Bitcoin: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/briefs/vat/brief0914.htm http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/briefs/vat/brief0914.htm If the government regards something as having value it wouldn't seem unreasonable to expect them to regard theft of assets in this form to be a crime.
pron 13y ago
The irony! I've just smiled to myself picturing those guys coming together and then slowly re-learning everything we know about statesmanship and politics. Like the moment they first realize different people have different values and want different things. Then they're going to come up with the idea of democracy and a parliament. Only this time around it will be the Aspergers among us who try to figure out how to influence people. :) But, of course, the best bit will be when they, so rationally, decide to give up the final ruling power to a super-intelligent AI, and then the look on their faces when the AI decides to do something that, while 100% rational, nobody wants.
- acjohnson55 13y ago
  It's like NIH Syndrome, but applied to the basic fabric of society.

pjc50 13y ago

There's not much sign of this happening so far ... Besides, isn't lack of effective prosecution of failed financial institutions a reason often cited for using bitcoin?

ry0ohki 13y ago

I'm trying to imagine a jury of your peers understanding the crime. "So they stole internet money? I'm confused."

gus_massa 13y ago
It's easy to explain. Bitcoins are like American Airlines miles. If someone enter a miles account of another person, and use the miles to buy or receive a reward it, then I'd call the miles "stolen". Perhaps we need a lawyer to pick the exact name of the crime. The difference is that Bitconin is decentralized, so there in no equivalent of A.A. to handle the servers. But it's easy to understand that a number in a computer screen is valuable. Well, most of the dollars are only a number in a computer screen, not real life bills.

jellicle 13y ago

The list of bitcoin businesses that have stolen all their customers' money and fled is quite long; many pages at this point. Can you give me a list of all the people who have been criminally investigated and put in jail for such theft?

JonFish85 13y ago

I'd be curious how that would shake down. If someone were to claim that they lost $USD 500k worth of Bitcoin, I imagine there'd be someone at the IRS who would be quite interested to look into how much this person paid on capital gains / income tax on the appreciated value of said bitcoin.... The person could be in for quite a tax bill!

danielahn 13y ago
In the US at least, I believe theft losses are tax deductible. That would be quite the unfortunate scenario though.