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With Free Version of Windows, Microsoft Gives In to the Google Way
- antonius 13y agoAs the article mentions, Windows revenues have been important to Microsoft's business for quite some time. It's hard to imagine how positively shareholders would react to this type of business decision.
- asdfaoeu 13y agoThis isn't to promote Bing this is to stop people from switching older machines to different operating systems.
- hughdbrown 13y ago"Google offers free OSes to computer and phone makers as a way of driving the use of its search engine and countless other web services, and now, Microsoft is at least experimenting with the idea of doing much the same thing. According to the report, its free operating system is known as Windows 8.1 With Bing. As the name implies, the OS is meant to feed the use of Microsoft’s own search engine, as well as other Microsoft cloud services and software applications." That's not even the start of the problem with Microsoft OSes, from my perspective. I bought a Dell machine this month with great specs and Windows 8.1 on it. I Clonezilla'd the drives with Windows on them and paved over with Mint 16 because (1) it's less painful to maintain and (2) I can script the installation of software I need to develop with. I've done battle with UEFI once and now I have a system I like. So Microsoft OSes are too expensive even if they were free. And I used MS DOS and Windows for 20 years before moving to Linux. No, something huge would have to happen before I go back, and free is not enough.
- EpicEng 13y agoOk, but you hardly represent a majority of the Windows user base. Few people care about scripting installations.
- bifftannen 13y agoYou can script the OS and application install with WDS, SCCM, and AD. Just because you can't or won't do it doesn't mean it can't be done.
- mappu 13y agoCan you script all those common installers that are (a) not an msi, (b) don't have a /SILENT switch or other unattended installation, (c) require license input, or any combination thereof? I guess you could use AutoHotkey to simulate mouse clicks, or attempt to repackage the software yourself. But when comparing the ability to script installations in general, linux has a major, major advantage.
- cbhl 13y agoRepacking all the software yourself so that you can automate the installation of packages is hardly what I'd consider a solution. In practice, people use drive images of Windows, or Ninite, or pay the neighbourhood PFK $12/hr to "automate" it.
- beagle3 13y agoThat's almost funny. I was too lazy to do things properly (kickstart script, etc.) so I have a bash script with about 10 "apt-get install" lines that set up everything I want on Ubuntu or debian, and a few more "echo" lines that configure 90% of my other preferences. 50 line scripts that contain very little other than the names of the programs I want or the configuration I want. Let's say I just got a new computer with Windows 7/8, not part of a domain or anything - just a new laptop. Care to list the steps needed to get into your favorite state (list YOUR favorite 10 apps you need to install)
- bruce511 13y agoWhat you are describing here is the cost of changing from an OS you know, to one that you don't. Since this cost greatly exceeds the sticker price of windows, or Mac for that matter, it is the real reason why people tend to stick with the OS they already know how to use. It's one of the reasons why Linux never got much traction on the desktop. Sure it made a great desktop OS for the technorati but Joe Public knows how to do what he wants in Windows, and saving $50 isnt incentive enough for him to change. As you say, "free is not enough". Incidentally the exact same thing plays out with regard to apps. Office may have strong Open Source competition, but free is not enough there either to get most people to switch. This effect is not limited to the OS itself, but extends to the flavor of the OS as well. Despite what the popular press says, windows 8 is not bad, but it is different. Vista was better than you think, but wasa different to XP and so on. Xp was the gold standard for a long time, so it's easy to forget how much people resisted it at first. And before you get too smug, look at the division in the Linux market right now over Unity. Here's the thing. The price of the OS is irrelevant. Free is not an advantage. Windows will exist on the desktop for many years to come, and will likely flop on the phone. But price will have nothing to do with either outcome.
- hrjet 13y agoFamiliarity is more of a problem for the older generations of people. But they are a receding market share. And my hunch is that newer generations are more adaptive to new interfaces, having grown into a world where there already many options available.
- hughdbrown 13y agoWell, thanks, but I am not smug about this. I don't care if Windows lives or dies. I've moved on. We are no longer dating. And here's how it happened: http://www.iwebthereforeiam.com/iwebthereforeiam/2009/10/introducing-windows-7-your-pc-simplified.html http://www.iwebthereforeiam.com/iwebthereforeiam/2009/10/int... I was a happy Windows developer (DOS, Windows 3,1, NT, Windows 95, Windows whatever) and found that windows was too annoying to live with. And I don't pretend this is everyone's situation or even anyone else's. It doesn't matter to me. I've moved on and I'm happy.
- kamaal 13y ago>I can script the installation of software I need to develop with. I've d... This is a serious problem with Linux'es. Seriously, what user base is Linux optimizing for? Nearly 100% of the people using a computer don't have to ever do such a thing ever. People use computers to get work done, or get some entertainment. Not play with their guts. Imagine if your TV or Washing Machine, or even you Car required you to have deep understanding of Electronics or mechanical engineering to just get them working. I'm sure we people who call ourselves hackers wouldn't touch such a thing with a 10 foot pole.
- 10098 13y agoYou missed the point completely. "I can script the installation of software I need to develop with" means he can simply write a script (similar to a windows batch file) that automatically installs whatever software he needs using the package manager. You are not required to do this, and this is simply a convenient method of preparing a freshly installed OS for use. For example, if I install an OS on a new machine, I usually install chrome, openbox, tint2, etc. I have a script that does that for me so that I don't waste time installing every single piece separately. I don't even know how to do anything similar on Windows. If anything, the way software installation is managed on most linux distros (package managers and software repositories) is superior to the way it's done on Windows today (download setup.exe from god-knows-where and run it, and a constant pain in the ass with updates).
- pjc50 13y agoTo be fair, you can do this on Windows .. with the enterprise tools. It's just that there's no easy way to find this out and they require a domain controller anyway.
- rando289 13y agoWindows for many years has given out hundreds of millions of copies for free by intentionally limiting the strength of their DRM and licensing enforcement. This makes perfect competitive sense.
- panabee 13y agoI believe they recognized piracy was actually an early form of the freemium model. Rather than forcing every consumer to pay up, they concentrated for many years on extracting money from users with deep pockets -- i.e., enterprises and OEM partners.
- rando289 13y agoYes, thats basically what I meant to say.
- zdw 13y agoAnd I'll bet part of the license will say, "Can't be run in a virtual machine", to prevent people from using it in combination with VirtualBox to run Windows Apps for free. Because I'd sure as heck do that and replace hundreds of licensing seats worth of RDP as well as old XP VM's.
- sliverstorm 13y agoWell, naturally. Microsoft wants to compete in the consumer space. Windows Apps is not consumer, it is enterprise, and they are doing alright there.
- tunap 13y agoFree today, tomorrow it will be subscription based SaaS. What else do you expect from a former VP of MS's Online Services Division? edit: subscription, not prescription. yet.
- cbhl 13y agoMy gut feeling is that this will be them porting Windows RT back onto x86_64, similar in a sense to Windows XP Starter Edition, with options to pay for a "full" license that can run Desktop (i.e. not Metro) apps. I hope to be proven wrong.
- neolefty 13y agoI don't think that's the plan, because if they want old XP users to upgrade, that would not be sufficient, since old XP users of course want their old XP apps to keep working.
- teacup50 13y agoIf you want to see what the future of free operating systems looks like, watch free network TV. This isn't a good trend; who will be the HBO of operating systems?
- jebblue 13y agoLately and for the foreseeable future it's Netflix. Oh Os'es, Linux of course.
- veidr 13y agoSuperior, industry-leading 'content' that nevertheless has a small slice of the total market, demographically skewed toward rich people? Complete and and iron-clad control of its distribution? Pretty sure we already have that. It's Apple.
- gizmo686 13y agoExcept we know that good free operating systems are possible because I am writing this comment from one.
- skrebbel 13y agoAs a Microsoft customer, this alienates me from them. Paid software means that our interests are aligned: I want good software and Microsoft wants to make good software so that I buy it. Free commercial software means that I'll have to pay through other means, typically means that I'll have less control over.
- beagle3 13y agoYour interest and Microsoft's interests haven't been aligned in years. Your interest is to keep an OS supported. Microsoft's interest is to release Browser and DirectX updates only for the latest-and-greatest, so that you'd updgrade. Your interest is an open ecosystem. Microsoft's interest is to have a closed garden. (They haven't been successful with that one, but they're trying). Your interest might be a usable Desktop OS like Win7. Microsoft's interest is to ram their touch interface down your throat so that you'd get used to it, and your next phone may possibly run Windows - regardless of what's good for you. Your interest is a usable system that just works. Microsoft's interest is providing a "Protected Media Path" that would degrade your experience if your equipment is not xIAA certified. You already have NO control. You're already paying through other means. You might have had an illusion of control taken away from you - but that's a good thing.
- superuser2 13y ago>Your interest is to keep an OS supported. That's not true. It's in your interest to benefit from improvements in software quality. (Certain "upgrades" from Microsoft have been anything but that, but we've certainly come a long way since Windows ME.) A product encumbered by technical debt is going to be weaker. There are certain well-defined, self-contained systems where never changing makes sense - things that will run for decades, like lab instruments and life-critical industrial automation. General purpose computing isn't one of them.
- beagle3 13y agoYou copied half of my paragraph. I was specifically referring to Microsoft refusing to support DirectX and new Browsers on older operating systems. The limitation was definitely not technical - Chrome and Firefox supported 2000 and XP years after Microsoft stopped. > > Your interest is to keep an OS supported. > That's not true. That's basically always true (even if you quoted me out of context) - it is always your interest to upgrade at your leisure. Unless you are of the general belief that you should be forced to do things that are considered good for you (e.g. forced physical exercise, forced removal of sugar or salt from dishes, etc)
- malbs 13y agoThe worst thing I found with Windows 8. Using any of the metro apps, there was embedded advertising inside of the apps. Upsetting to be advertised to inside of applications running on an O/S that I paid money for. It's ok though, they fixed it, when I upgraded to Windows 8.1, the upgrade destroyed my ability to run metro style apps at all - I just got some arcane error message when I try to run/launch anything metro related. I went back to Windows 7.
- melling 13y agoHopefully, this solves the legacy browser problem. Otherwise, IE8 is going need to be supported for years. Yes, some devs will be stuck because of their industries but many will be able to say IE11+.
- belorn 13y agoI really doubt this will have any effect on Microsoft revenues from computer retailers like dell, and windows starter editions has always pushed an IAP for an upgraded version. The only market they loose is the customers who go to a local store to buy windows starter/basic edition. I think that is a pretty small market, but feel free to correct me.
- vishnugupta 13y agoI tend to agree with this. Also, I doubt if big corporations, perhaps locked into multi-year contract, would bother with this free edition. I bought MS Office in a retail outlet but otherwise Windows OS itself has always been prepackaged.
- shmerl 13y agoThe fear of Linux took them at last.
- acchow 13y agoIf by Linux you mean iPads and Chromebooks.
- shmerl 13y agoNo, I mean regular Linux. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7338814 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7338814
- acchow 13y agoLet's look at the numbers. Excluding post-PC products, classic desktop and laptop OS market share is: Windows - 90.8% OS X - 7.7% Linux - 1.5% Linux has a long way to go.
- shmerl 13y agoNumbers aren't enough. Dynamics matter even more. Obviously MS isn't scared of current numbers but scared of where things are moving.
- nivla 13y agoI would say moreover the fear of Google.
- shmerl 13y agoGoogle doesn't compete with them for the desktop really. But desktop Linux distros do. Especially when it comes to gaming. Note that Valve pushes Linux a lot lately with their whole SteamOS effort especially. I think that's a major threat for MS who for a long time enjoyed an unchallenged position as a platform in PC gaming. Latest Linux gaming renaissance eats at their confidence. For many gamers Windows is not seen as a requirement anymore, and they simply ditch it and start using better systems (especially because Wine became so good lately). While gamers are a minority amongst Windows users, MS still fears that dynamic because it breaks their network effect and creates the same effect in the Linux world.
- zaidf 13y agoI miss the Microsoft that was known for making solid products that could have a 5-10 year shelf life. It is sad that Office 2007 works better for me than Office 2010; Windows 7 better than Windows 8.
- sliverstorm 13y agoTheir products get better with age. XP SP2 was a totally different beast from XP. Vista was improved a lot post-launch, and so was Windows 7. I still remember when Office 2007 was "buggy and slow" compared to Office 2003, but today no one runs 2003 anymore and 2007 is the reliable standard. Windows 8.1 has improved on Windows 8. So, give it time.
- mseidl 13y agoAnd using Windows ME, aged 14 years like a nice wine...
- redblacktree 13y agoNot a great vintage.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- kamaal 13y agoActually a free Windows OS would actually be great. Here in India, Pirated Windows OS are like as common as mosquitoes. No one but Microsoft was losing in all this. The price of Windows is generally prohibitively high and was by no way affordable to home and even small business users. The only option was to pirate them or use Ubuntu. People walk in to buy a laptop, check the difference in price for Laptops with Windows OS and Laptops without them. Often the difference is in the range 7 to 8 thousand rupees. The obvious option is Pirate Windows OS or Ubuntu. Instead of making it totally free. Microsoft can even charge a reasonable price and I can assure you people will pay it. The problem was never with Microsoft or Windows. The problem was always affordability. If only Microsoft can make Windows affordable, they can kill all competitors instantly.
- chaostheory 13y agoPiracy feels the the same in most of East and South East Asia as well.
- usaphp 13y agoSame thing in Russia and all former soviet republics, I don't know any of my friends back there who has ever purchased a licensed copy of windows.
- gosukiwi 13y agoSame thing for South America, 99% of Windows copies are pirated.
- higherpurpose 13y agoThat begs the question - what does Microsoft really gain with this? Poor countries never bought Windows anyway, and rich countries will now be getting it for free, instead of paying money for it.
- chaostheory 13y ago
- josephcooney 13y agoLooks like google has succeeded in comoditizing their ccompliments, which their competitor (Microsoft) used to be able to make money off. If I were MS I'd be trying to figure out how to launch a free competitor to adwords.
- sdegutis 13y agoThis seems like a clever move: make the OS free, to encourage developers and consumers to adopt it, and profit from the OS's suddenly-flourishing ecosystem rather than the OS itself.
- lstamour 13y agoWhy does this article fixate on Google? For the clicks? We all know that most of Windows won't be free until they've a sure-fire way to make profits on top of that. And the answer lies in iOS and Mavericks more than Google. Give away the OS to build the ecosystem, sure Android also does that. But only Apple's making money at it. If it goes free, it's going to look a lot more like iOS than Android -- a lot more like Xbox One, in fact, which also gets free updates. Sure, it might look like Office Starter edition, and be ad supported, but for productivity purposes, ads are the enemy and so that model has less chance at success. Ultimately, Microsoft wants in on this "free-to-play" OS market, and when they do it, you can bet it will be in their interest, and it will exclude businesses and still offer premium add-on packs for home users. Let's not go crazy, this is, after all, Microsoft. When would they ever release just one SKU of anything?
- laumars 13y agoThis isn't really as big news as it sounds as MS have often heavily subsidized Windows for OEMs abd such like when they've needed to compete in other markets (Eg when XP was initially losing out to Linux on nettops). And they've shown that they're happy to run flagship consumer products at a loss just to raise adoption (Eg the original Xbox). So it seems to me to be quite typical for then to drop the cost of a product like this when they're struggling to push said product. And who can blame them, it's a fairly standard practice outside of IT as well, and it's not like MS don't have the funds to do run at a loss for several years either (though I expect they'll easily have this cost offset anyway)
- blueskin_ 13y ago>The google way Closing popular services? Massive pervasive privacy invasion? I wonder how crippled the free version of Windows will be. MS made an ultra cheap version of vista and 7, for example, that was so limited it was almost a joke. If MS want to keep their market share up, they should just keep selling Windows 7 at a lower price, as that is what people really want. Real computers are never going to disappear because phones and tablets are read only devices for passive consumers and completely unusable for any real work, underpowered, and with tiny screens (sure, it's nice to watch a movie on the train, but when you get home, you're probably going to use either a computer or a TV instead).
- Paradigma11 13y agoLet's hope not. I want to be the customer and not the product.
- chris_wot 13y agoWell this is ironic. Here is Bill Gates' letter to the Homebrew Club, dated February 3, 1976: To me, the most critical thing in the hobby market right now is the lack of good software courses, books and software itself. Without good software and an owner who understands programming, a hobby computer is wasted. Will quality software be written for the hobby market? Almost a year ago, Paul Allen and myself, expecting the hobby market to expand, hired Monte Davidoff and developed Altair BASIC. Though the initial work took only two months, the three of us have spent most of the last year documenting, improving and adding features to BASIC. Now we have 4K, 8K, EXTENDED, ROM and DISK BASIC. The value of the computer time we have used exceeds $40,000. The feedback we have gotten from the hundreds of people who say they are using BASIC has all been positive. Two surprising things are apparent, however, 1) Most of these "users" never bought BASIC (less than 10% of all Altair owners have bought BASIC), and 2) The amount of royalties we have received from sales to hobbyists makes the time spent on Altair BASIC worth less than $2 an hour. Why is this? As the majority of hobbyists must be aware, most of you steal your software. Hardware must be paid for, but software is something to share. Who cares if the people who worked on it get paid? Is this fair? One thing you don't do by stealing software is get back at MITS for some problem you may have had. MITS doesn't make money selling software. The royalty paid to us, the manual, the tape and the overhead make it a break-even operation. One thing you do do is prevent good software from being written. Who can afford to do professional work for nothing? What hobbyist can put 3-man years into programming, finding all bugs, documenting his product and distribute for free? The fact is, no one besides us has invested a lot of money in hobby software. We have written 6800 BASIC, and are writing 8080 APL and 6800 APL, but there is very little incentive to make this software available to hobbyists. Most directly, the thing you do is theft. What about the guys who re-sell Altair BASIC, aren't they making money on hobby software? Yes, but those who have been reported to us may lose in the end. They are the ones who give hobbyists a bad name, and should be kicked out of any club meeting they show up at. I would appreciate letters from any one who wants to pay up, or has a suggestion or comment. Just write me at 1180 Alvarado SE, #114, Albuquerque, New Mexico, 87108. Nothing would please me more than being able to hire ten programmers and deluge the hobby market with good software. Bill Gates General Partner, Micro-Soft --- 48 years later, it turns out that the following response highlighted the answer: http://www.digibarn.com/collections/newsletters/homebrew/V2_02/homebrew_V2_02_p2.jpg http://www.digibarn.com/collections/newsletters/homebrew/V2_...
- Kurtz79 13y agoAs an MacOS/Linux user (at home at least) I'll say that this is a welcome decision from Microsoft and that, regardless of the reason for which it was taken, is one that benefits all the consumers. Could we for once set aside our opinions on MS and agree on that ?
- Beltiras 13y agoIf this were Windows 7, it would actually be a gift worth receiving. Windows 8 is unusable. The lone machine on my local net is reviled and nobody wants to use it. It's slated for an "upgrade" to Ubuntu 12.04.
- rainmaking 13y agoFirst IBM, now Google. Microsoft really is the world's greatest number two.