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Russia invades neighboring countries, for economic and strategic reasons while bullshitting about invented risks, while the US and UK does much the same, but go

Russia invades neighboring countries, for economic and strategic reasons while bullshitting about invented risks, while the US and UK does much the same, but goes for ones slightly further away. The trouble is, after the bullshit with Iraq and the made-up WMD justification, we don't have much moral authority here. At least the Russians haven't flattened Kiev like we did with Baghdad.

DanielBMarkham 13y ago
Yeah not so much. I know, it's a complex situation. But there's a lot of spin too. It'd be good to try to keep all the moral equivocating and the "but they did it too!" out of it. If Mexico had an election we didn't like and we were down there with the 101st Airborne, perhaps. There might be a close parallel. But otherwise you end up debating binding United Nations Security Council resolutions, the violation of the treaty that ended the first Gulf War, and so on. Nobody's going to agree on all of that, so you can't draw the clear parallels you'd like. Sorry. If you want to dive down to just another level of complexity and talk about international treaties. Ukraine was promised that this would not happen by both Russia and the major world powers when it gave up its nuclear weapons. Russia is in violation of its own word. Not so much with the 17 zillion other examples of other countries invading each other.
ck2 13y ago
Wait, because the US did something horrible that makes what Russia is doing okay?
- lotsofmangos 13y ago
  No, it just makes it very hard for the US and UK governments to scold the Russian one without them laughing.
  - ck2 13y ago
    Even the Germans cannot seem to get Putin to do a reality check. Whom do you feel is qualified/going to be able to stop Putin from acting like a bully?
    - lotsofmangos 13y ago
      Time. He's starting to look old. Before too long, that hard-man image he has been cultivating will come around to bite him. Also, it is not too good an idea to fill your borders with civil wars.
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- nirnira 13y ago
  No, it just means no one takes US moral outrage seriously anymore. Sorry.

DanielBMarkham 13y ago

Yeah not so much. I know, it's a complex situation. But there's a lot of spin too. It'd be good to try to keep all the moral equivocating and the "but they did it too!" out of it. If Mexico had an election we didn't like and we were down there with the 101st Airborne, perhaps. There might be a close parallel. But otherwise you end up debating binding United Nations Security Council resolutions, the violation of the treaty that ended the first Gulf War, and so on. Nobody's going to agree on all of that, so you can't draw the clear parallels you'd like. Sorry. If you want to dive down to just another level of complexity and talk about international treaties. Ukraine was promised that this would not happen by both Russia and the major world powers when it gave up its nuclear weapons. Russia is in violation of its own word. Not so much with the 17 zillion other examples of other countries invading each other.

ck2 13y ago

Wait, because the US did something horrible that makes what Russia is doing okay?

lotsofmangos 13y ago
No, it just makes it very hard for the US and UK governments to scold the Russian one without them laughing.
- ck2 13y ago
  Even the Germans cannot seem to get Putin to do a reality check. Whom do you feel is qualified/going to be able to stop Putin from acting like a bully?
  - lotsofmangos 13y ago
    Time. He's starting to look old. Before too long, that hard-man image he has been cultivating will come around to bite him. Also, it is not too good an idea to fill your borders with civil wars.
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nirnira 13y ago
No, it just means no one takes US moral outrage seriously anymore. Sorry.