3 ms·

This has been the third article on HN recently about the police. Historically it has been minority groups that only see this side of police activity. Now that u

by cup 13y ago

This has been the third article on HN recently about the police. Historically it has been minority groups that only see this side of police activity. Now that upper middle class white individuals have experienced it though Its interesting to read the comments people are leaving. For the record: I believe his advice is terrible for any person of lower socio economic background and especially for a person of colour. The number 1 rule when interacting with police should be you have no rights. Only when you're safely away from that policemen are your rights returned. Countless victims of police brutality can attest to that.

nickfarr 13y ago
For the record, as the giver of said advice: I pretty much completely agree.
balls187 13y ago
I wonder why that middle class, and upper middle class white individuals are now experiencing an increase in police. Perhaps it's resentment of the widening income gap between 20-30 somethings in the tech industry and those in the service industry? Another HN article referenced a Bay Area police officer making a remark about being a "wannabe billionaire."
- WildUtah 13y ago
  "Perhaps it's resentment of the widening income gap between 20-30 somethings in the tech industry and those in the service industry?" Maybe. Because of the billionaire big winner image, people outside the industry see techies as very well off. In fact, cops make a lot more on average -- benefits included -- than techies or programmers or engineers. In big American cities, cops are paid similar total compensation to doctors. The usual breakdown is 125k or so salary plus gold plated health care, various fancy bonuses and discounts and a pension plan that's worth more actuarially than all of the salary. Totals above $400k are not uncommon. NYPD, as mentioned in op, is considered much more stingy than suburban NY departments so the cops in question may not be making quite that much.
  - throwaway344 13y ago
    Yeah, with my experiences with police officers who I know personally they seem to earn nothing like that. Could you provide a source on those figures? I would be interested to learn about it.
  - learc83 13y ago
    Those numbers don't sound right at all. Bureau of Labor Statistics says the median is 55k. http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes333051.htm http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes333051.htm Since you said NY is stingy, I tried other big cities. Here's a list of Chicago PD salaries. https://data.cityofchicago.org/Administration-Finance/Police-Salary/ap92-235q https://data.cityofchicago.org/Administration-Finance/Police... The only people on that list with a salary of 125k are ranked captain and above. Here's the LAPD salary schedule. http://per.lacity.org/psb/lapd_salary.htm http://per.lacity.org/psb/lapd_salary.htm Not even close to averaging 125k Houston PD http://www.texastribune.org/library/data/government-employee-salaries/houston/departments/police/537/?page=1 http://www.texastribune.org/library/data/government-employee... Again, much lower than what you're talking about. If cops in the 4 biggest cities in America aren't making that much, who is?
    - WildUtah 13y ago
      Cops generally make a lot more than the official base pay. They get lots of routine highly compensated overtime even when working only 2000 hours a year. Published figures usually aren't representative. Seniority gives mid career cops lots of opportunities to pad overtime hours. Check the actual pay instead of salary schedules. Also, retirement with nearly full pay at age 50 is common. http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2010/05/06/police_pay_can_exceed_250k/ http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2010... http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-17/highest-paid-california-trooper-is-chief-banking-484-000.html http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-17/highest-paid-califo... http://www.sacbee.com/statepay/?name=&agency=CALIFORNIA+HIGHWAY+PATROL&salarylevel=200000#req=employee%2Fsearch%2Fname%3D%2Fyear%3D2013%2Fdepartment%3DCalifornia%20Highway%20Patrol http://www.sacbee.com/statepay/?name=&agency=CALIFORNIA+HIGH...
    - auctiontheory 13y ago
- nickfarr 13y ago
  In my case, it was a freak occurrence. I chose to wear my admittedly ratty looking but thrift-store looking hat along with a Century 21 snowboarding jacket. Had it been a slightly warmer day, this incident would have likely never occurred. That being said, I think what's happening on the left coast is the widening income gap coupled with a context switch that the cops are still catching up to. There are a lot of kids who bleed entitlement, some of whom are quite wealthy and some of whom are dirt poor.
kevinskii 13y ago
> The number 1 rule when interacting with police should be you have no rights. As a former Los Angeles sheriff's deputy who agrees with the majority of sentiments in this thread, I can confidently say that your broad statement is nonsense. Everyone, not just upper middle class whites, should know and assert their rights in police encounters.
- enraged_camel 13y ago
  This only works if you assume that every officer is nice, reasonable and believes strongly in upholding their duty to the public. The sad fact of the matter is that a very large number of police officers are simply bullies in uniform. Asserting your rights to them, or acting "uppity," will only get you in trouble.
  - kevinskii 13y ago
    A sizeable minority of officers are indeed bullies. But while I can't speak for other police agencies, even the bullies are pretty well reined in by the policies in Los Angeles. I can elaborate if you like.
    - enraged_camel 13y ago
      If by "pretty well reined in" you mean "given 30-day paid vacations when they misbehave" then I suppose you are right. What you won't see (or will see very, very rarely) is a cop losing his job and standing trial for assault if they wrongfully use physical force on a civilian. They can always get away with "well, I thought he was carrying a weapon" or other such flimsy excuses. Combined with the fact that cops always look after their own, it becomes very difficult to successfully and meaningfully persecute a cop for abusing their authority.
- quasse 13y ago
  Hey! I was just reading about you guys. http://www.lamag.com/features/2014/2/26/downfall/print http://www.lamag.com/features/2014/2/26/downfall/print
- 13y ago

by cup 13y ago

nickfarr 13y ago

For the record, as the giver of said advice: I pretty much completely agree.

balls187 13y ago

I wonder why that middle class, and upper middle class white individuals are now experiencing an increase in police. Perhaps it's resentment of the widening income gap between 20-30 somethings in the tech industry and those in the service industry? Another HN article referenced a Bay Area police officer making a remark about being a "wannabe billionaire."

WildUtah 13y ago
"Perhaps it's resentment of the widening income gap between 20-30 somethings in the tech industry and those in the service industry?" Maybe. Because of the billionaire big winner image, people outside the industry see techies as very well off. In fact, cops make a lot more on average -- benefits included -- than techies or programmers or engineers. In big American cities, cops are paid similar total compensation to doctors. The usual breakdown is 125k or so salary plus gold plated health care, various fancy bonuses and discounts and a pension plan that's worth more actuarially than all of the salary. Totals above $400k are not uncommon. NYPD, as mentioned in op, is considered much more stingy than suburban NY departments so the cops in question may not be making quite that much.
- throwaway344 13y ago
  Yeah, with my experiences with police officers who I know personally they seem to earn nothing like that. Could you provide a source on those figures? I would be interested to learn about it.
- learc83 13y ago
  Those numbers don't sound right at all. Bureau of Labor Statistics says the median is 55k. http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes333051.htm http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes333051.htm Since you said NY is stingy, I tried other big cities. Here's a list of Chicago PD salaries. https://data.cityofchicago.org/Administration-Finance/Police-Salary/ap92-235q https://data.cityofchicago.org/Administration-Finance/Police... The only people on that list with a salary of 125k are ranked captain and above. Here's the LAPD salary schedule. http://per.lacity.org/psb/lapd_salary.htm http://per.lacity.org/psb/lapd_salary.htm Not even close to averaging 125k Houston PD http://www.texastribune.org/library/data/government-employee-salaries/houston/departments/police/537/?page=1 http://www.texastribune.org/library/data/government-employee... Again, much lower than what you're talking about. If cops in the 4 biggest cities in America aren't making that much, who is?
  - WildUtah 13y ago
    Cops generally make a lot more than the official base pay. They get lots of routine highly compensated overtime even when working only 2000 hours a year. Published figures usually aren't representative. Seniority gives mid career cops lots of opportunities to pad overtime hours. Check the actual pay instead of salary schedules. Also, retirement with nearly full pay at age 50 is common. http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2010/05/06/police_pay_can_exceed_250k/ http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2010... http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-17/highest-paid-california-trooper-is-chief-banking-484-000.html http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-17/highest-paid-califo... http://www.sacbee.com/statepay/?name=&agency=CALIFORNIA+HIGHWAY+PATROL&salarylevel=200000#req=employee%2Fsearch%2Fname%3D%2Fyear%3D2013%2Fdepartment%3DCalifornia%20Highway%20Patrol http://www.sacbee.com/statepay/?name=&agency=CALIFORNIA+HIGH...
  - auctiontheory 13y ago
nickfarr 13y ago
In my case, it was a freak occurrence. I chose to wear my admittedly ratty looking but thrift-store looking hat along with a Century 21 snowboarding jacket. Had it been a slightly warmer day, this incident would have likely never occurred. That being said, I think what's happening on the left coast is the widening income gap coupled with a context switch that the cops are still catching up to. There are a lot of kids who bleed entitlement, some of whom are quite wealthy and some of whom are dirt poor.

kevinskii 13y ago

> The number 1 rule when interacting with police should be you have no rights. As a former Los Angeles sheriff's deputy who agrees with the majority of sentiments in this thread, I can confidently say that your broad statement is nonsense. Everyone, not just upper middle class whites, should know and assert their rights in police encounters.

enraged_camel 13y ago
This only works if you assume that every officer is nice, reasonable and believes strongly in upholding their duty to the public. The sad fact of the matter is that a very large number of police officers are simply bullies in uniform. Asserting your rights to them, or acting "uppity," will only get you in trouble.
- kevinskii 13y ago
  A sizeable minority of officers are indeed bullies. But while I can't speak for other police agencies, even the bullies are pretty well reined in by the policies in Los Angeles. I can elaborate if you like.
  - enraged_camel 13y ago
    If by "pretty well reined in" you mean "given 30-day paid vacations when they misbehave" then I suppose you are right. What you won't see (or will see very, very rarely) is a cop losing his job and standing trial for assault if they wrongfully use physical force on a civilian. They can always get away with "well, I thought he was carrying a weapon" or other such flimsy excuses. Combined with the fact that cops always look after their own, it becomes very difficult to successfully and meaningfully persecute a cop for abusing their authority.
quasse 13y ago
Hey! I was just reading about you guys. http://www.lamag.com/features/2014/2/26/downfall/print http://www.lamag.com/features/2014/2/26/downfall/print
13y ago