7 ms·

Yeah, same. :/ Funny, isn't? All the Adria Richards of the world claiming to want to increase the exposure of women in tech are actively discouraging exactly th

by Crake 13y ago

Yeah, same. :/ Funny, isn't? All the Adria Richards of the world claiming to want to increase the exposure of women in tech are actively discouraging exactly that.

jonalmeida 13y ago
It's an interesting point. I think it's discouraging young male entrepreneurs. Hacker School has special funding for women wanting to apply and while I consciously ignore this, sub-consciously, I feel that I have a less likely chance of getting in so why bother applying.
- thesimpsons1022 13y ago
  I never understood this. Does hacker school think women as a demographic are less wealthy than men? If they are applying its because they are interested, offering to pay wouldnt make more women interested, it just favors the ones that are even !ore. There's a reason women get imposter syndrome so often, because they are given extraordinary benefits and attention.
- Crake 13y ago
  I feel deeply uncomfortable with it as well. Getting paid $5,000 for having a vagina is usually something associated with, err, other industries. I'd feel much better if it were on the basis of financial need rather than which set of genitals you have (and as a non-cis person, makes me wonder what they'd do with a trans person...).
- jvns 13y ago
  Hacker School judges everyone the same way -- they'd love to admit everyone who's friendly and excited about becoming a better programmer.
- ameister14 13y ago
  Why does encouraging others discourage you? If I praise someone else does it make you feel less worthy?
  - jonalmeida 13y ago
    Again, I'm all for achieving the same goal of equality, but maybe not in the same way that some places go about it. Hacker School is just an example institution, and I'm not trying to bash them or question their judgement - they really do seem like an amazing group of people, which is why I'd love to go there. That said, I don't see why any man who isn't able to fully fund his stay, shouldn't be able to apply for a HS grant. If its for encouragement, then it would seem discouraging to those that can't apply for it. I'm not in this boat, but I can think of a few people who should go to HS but just can't afford to.
chc 13y ago
You don't have to support things like this, but have you ever considered not constantly taking pot-shots at efforts to correct a really blatant inequality like this?
- Crake 13y ago
  There isn't any blatant inequality except for the sex based discrimination being pushed on the field by feminists, which won't be corrected without pushback from egalitarians.
  - chc 13y ago
    If you believe the sexes are equally represented in this field, you should probably try to learn more about a topic like this before forming such strong feelings on it, because the numbers show that not to be remotely true. I honestly have trouble believing you really think this, but I'll assume you're sincere but misinformed, which is kind of a relief. The claim that there are as many women in tech as men is as poorly borne out by the numbers as the idea that Topeka is five miles from Tokyo. Please, do some cursory research and you will see that women really are badly outnumbered in tech.
    - microjesus 13y ago
      "badly outnumbered". Should this be a contest? Where are hard facts on discrimination of women in our field?
    - Crake 13y ago
      They have equal opportunity. (Actually, no, women have greater opportunity than men do these days.) That's not a guarantee of equal outcome, though.
  - david_shaw 13y ago
    > the sex based discrimination being pushed on the field by feminists I've tried to avoid this inane discussion, but realizing that you're probably misinformed rather than malicious, I thought I'd chime in. Feminism is egalitarianism. Feminism literally means that women should be equal to men. I'm not going to argue with you about so-called "segregationist" policies, because it seems like we'd come to a stand-still. The only thing I'd like to point out is that we should all be feminists, because the only alternative is sexism. Seriously, look it up. If you've had a bad experience with radical women who say "all men are pigs," please don't use that as a reason to not support true feminists (such as myself), who (among other things) are trying to rectify the atrociously low ratio of women in tech. Yes, we all want a meritocracy. Yes, there's something that we're doing to prevent more women from entering the field. Yes, we need to change that.
GFK_of_xmaspast 13y ago
Really? I would have guessed it was all the MRA assholes.
- Crake 13y ago
  >a person disagrees with GFK >"must be one of those evil MRAs"

by Crake 13y ago

Yeah, same. :/ Funny, isn't? All the Adria Richards of the world claiming to want to increase the exposure of women in tech are actively discouraging exactly that.

jonalmeida 13y ago

It's an interesting point. I think it's discouraging young male entrepreneurs. Hacker School has special funding for women wanting to apply and while I consciously ignore this, sub-consciously, I feel that I have a less likely chance of getting in so why bother applying.

thesimpsons1022 13y ago
I never understood this. Does hacker school think women as a demographic are less wealthy than men? If they are applying its because they are interested, offering to pay wouldnt make more women interested, it just favors the ones that are even !ore. There's a reason women get imposter syndrome so often, because they are given extraordinary benefits and attention.
Crake 13y ago
I feel deeply uncomfortable with it as well. Getting paid $5,000 for having a vagina is usually something associated with, err, other industries. I'd feel much better if it were on the basis of financial need rather than which set of genitals you have (and as a non-cis person, makes me wonder what they'd do with a trans person...).
jvns 13y ago
Hacker School judges everyone the same way -- they'd love to admit everyone who's friendly and excited about becoming a better programmer.
ameister14 13y ago
Why does encouraging others discourage you? If I praise someone else does it make you feel less worthy?
- jonalmeida 13y ago
  Again, I'm all for achieving the same goal of equality, but maybe not in the same way that some places go about it. Hacker School is just an example institution, and I'm not trying to bash them or question their judgement - they really do seem like an amazing group of people, which is why I'd love to go there. That said, I don't see why any man who isn't able to fully fund his stay, shouldn't be able to apply for a HS grant. If its for encouragement, then it would seem discouraging to those that can't apply for it. I'm not in this boat, but I can think of a few people who should go to HS but just can't afford to.

chc 13y ago

You don't have to support things like this, but have you ever considered not constantly taking pot-shots at efforts to correct a really blatant inequality like this?

Crake 13y ago
There isn't any blatant inequality except for the sex based discrimination being pushed on the field by feminists, which won't be corrected without pushback from egalitarians.
- chc 13y ago
  If you believe the sexes are equally represented in this field, you should probably try to learn more about a topic like this before forming such strong feelings on it, because the numbers show that not to be remotely true. I honestly have trouble believing you really think this, but I'll assume you're sincere but misinformed, which is kind of a relief. The claim that there are as many women in tech as men is as poorly borne out by the numbers as the idea that Topeka is five miles from Tokyo. Please, do some cursory research and you will see that women really are badly outnumbered in tech.
  - microjesus 13y ago
    "badly outnumbered". Should this be a contest? Where are hard facts on discrimination of women in our field?
  - Crake 13y ago
    They have equal opportunity. (Actually, no, women have greater opportunity than men do these days.) That's not a guarantee of equal outcome, though.
- david_shaw 13y ago
  > the sex based discrimination being pushed on the field by feminists I've tried to avoid this inane discussion, but realizing that you're probably misinformed rather than malicious, I thought I'd chime in. Feminism is egalitarianism. Feminism literally means that women should be equal to men. I'm not going to argue with you about so-called "segregationist" policies, because it seems like we'd come to a stand-still. The only thing I'd like to point out is that we should all be feminists, because the only alternative is sexism. Seriously, look it up. If you've had a bad experience with radical women who say "all men are pigs," please don't use that as a reason to not support true feminists (such as myself), who (among other things) are trying to rectify the atrociously low ratio of women in tech. Yes, we all want a meritocracy. Yes, there's something that we're doing to prevent more women from entering the field. Yes, we need to change that.

GFK_of_xmaspast 13y ago

Really? I would have guessed it was all the MRA assholes.

Crake 13y ago
>a person disagrees with GFK >"must be one of those evil MRAs"