6 ms·

I am glad this has finally got to the top of HN. People should be aware of the fact that a part of sovereign country is being aggressively annexed by their neig

by xixixao 13y ago

I am glad this has finally got to the top of HN. People should be aware of the fact that a part of sovereign country is being aggressively annexed by their neighbor. And there is virtually no opposition to Putin in Russia.

davidw 13y ago
> I am glad this has finally got to the top of HN Because once HN is aware of it, we'll... uhm... Send Putin some nasty Perl scripts? This, like almost all political / breaking news stories, is probably off topic for this site, given the guidelines: http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html "Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic." This will probably be the opening item on most TV news shows this evening. It's currently the lead article on www.cnn.com www.corriere.it www.bbc.com/news/ etc...
- coherentpony 13y ago
  I don't know why you're being downvoted. This is entirely accurate.
- enraged_camel 13y ago
  I really wish "complaining about stuff being off-topic" was also against the guidelines. Oh wait, it is: "Please don't submit comments complaining that a submission is inappropriate for the site. If you think something is spam or offtopic, flag it by going to its page and clicking on the "flag" link. (Not all users will see this; there is a karma threshold.) If you flag something, please don't also comment that you did."
  - davidw 13y ago
    If no one points it out, people won't learn. You folks can downvote all you want. I am more than willing to spend my "karma" to attempt to preserve this site from politics. Also, while we're being picky, "I wish it were", not "I wish it was".
    - asveikau 13y ago
      Good luck fighting the good fight, that ever noble pursuit of educating the masses about an arbitrary set of rules. Back in the real world, some of the most enlightening discussion is "off-topic". So this example is not HN, but: I still remember back in the heyday of Slashdot reading the thread on 9/11 as it happened. Did anybody complain that that wasn't "News for Nerds"? What's happening in Ukraine is in that similar category of potentially world-shaping events. It doesn't hurt any of us to start paying attention.
      - enraged_camel 13y ago
        Exactly. If whatever is happening in Ukraine ends up sparking a large-scale war (hopefully not), you will be reading about it in history books. That makes it both new and interesting, which fits the guidelines.
      - davidw 13y ago
        One major correction: "It doesn't hurt any of us to start paying attention." Do not confuse "not wanting it on HN" with "not paying attention". Have you read the commentary here? A lot of it is really bad.
        asveikau 13y ago
        > Have you read the commentary here? A lot of it is really bad. I agree a lot of it is pretty far from the mark, but I object more strongly to the idea that one must dogmatically follow the rules. Also, I do think folks here sometimes get carried away with the "no politics" rule in particular, as if to define politics too broadly or kind of miss the point. (OK, so this has political implications, but imagining some sort of time warp, would you deny a story on World War II because it's "too political"?)
        davidw 13y ago
        I think politics is fascinating. But 99% of internet discussions about politics are crap. I'm beginning to develop some theories about that revolving around the idea that good discussion is costly, and cheap shots/conspiracy theories/empty words are very cheap, meaning the former get crowded out by the latter. In any event though, the discussions are pretty much horrible and worsen the site, which is one of the few good places to discuss hacking and startups out there.
- raldi 13y ago
  People said the same thing on Slashdot after 9/11, and they were wrong then, too. Once-a-generation events, with major impacts that last for decades across an entire region of the world, transcend "news for nerds" guidelines.
  - glogla 13y ago
    Well, this is really not once per generation. They did this with Georgia and Moldavia already. And more are to follow.
    - davidw 13y ago
      And indeed, there it goes - it's dropping off the front page like a lead balloon.
  - Pacabel 13y ago
    But Slashdot today is also a mere shadow of what it was in 2001. At least some of the decline in readership over there has been due to a gradual increase in politics-oriented submissions being shown on the front page, rather than technology/science-oriented submissions. While events like this do have significance, without a doubt, there is already ample coverage in a very wide variety of general news outlets. Many of the ones that are online allow for discussion, as well. So there's little need or reason for news sites focusing on rather specific topics like technology, science, mathematics and entrepreneurship to devote page space to rather unrelated political topics. The focus and the depth of coverage is what makes such sites appealing in the first place. Diluting them with news that can be found elsewhere is counterproductive.
- xixixao 13y ago
  I would agree if it weren't for the following: There are already many political topics discussed here. That's a reality. As people always point out, they are interesting to large number of people. Maybe HN is over the purely-technical-topics phase. I know many Americans read HN and this is a great opportunity to spread the word amongst those who might not have the experience to care. U.S. is still a democracy and at least in terms of public popularity its politicians care about their citizens' opinions. So, no Pearl scripts, but maybe this will help strengthen the U.S. position which is of paramount importance at this point.
- xixixao 13y ago
  I would agree if it weren't for the following: There are already many political topics discussed here. That's a reality. As people always point out, they are interesting to large number of people. Maybe HN is over the purely-technical-topics phase. I know many Americans read HN and this is a great opportunity to spread the word amongst those who might not have the experience to care. U.S. is still a democracy and at least in terms of public popularity its politicians care about their citizens' opinions. So, no Pearl scripts, but maybe this will help strengthen the U.S. position which is of paramount importance at this point.
- xixixao 13y ago
  I would agree if it weren't for the following: There are already many political topics discussed here. That's a reality. As people always point out, they are interesting to large number of people. Maybe HN is over the purely-technical-topics phase. I know many Americans read HN and this is a great opportunity to spread the word amongst those who might not have the experience to care. U.S. is still a democracy and at least in terms of public popularity its politicians care about their citizens' opinions. So, no Pearl scripts, but maybe this will help strengthen the U.S. position which is of paramount importance at this point.
osipov 13y ago
"a part of sovereign country is being aggressively annexed by their neighbor"...sounds like you are getting your media fix from Fox News
- danmaz74 13y ago
  Did Ukraine attack Russia in any way? No. Is Ukraine a sovereign Country? Yes. Is Russia sending troops to Ukraine? Yes. This is an invasion. Isn't an invasion an aggression? If not, what is?
  - gk1 13y ago
    You're oversimplifying the situation. Yes, Ukraine is a sovereign country. But half of it is ethnically Russian, and identify themselves a such. The Ukrainian border--like many geopolitical borders--is arbitrary and does not signify a single united nation. I'm not saying one side is right and the other is wrong. I'm just highlighting the fact that's it's not as simple as you make it out to be.
    - danmaz74 13y ago
      This could have justified a referendum. Not an occupation. That IS an act of war. Or you think that France could occupy the French-speaking part of Swiss and that wouldn't be an act of aggression?
      - solnyshok 13y ago
        Is there a part of constitution of Ukraine that allows some region of it to split away from Ukraine?
    - restlessmike 13y ago
      Just wanted to point out that Ukraine is not half ethnically Russian; large parts of the country speak the Russian language but only 17% are ethnically Russian. Even these ethnic Russians are still Ukrainian citizens, making any claim by Russia to be "protecting" them rather dubious.
9248 13y ago
I'm glad this is getting more attention since the vast majority of the developed world doesn't share a lot of knowledge regarding Easter Europe / post Soviet countries. What's happening currently in Ukraine can easily happen in any other country that's under Russian's sphere of influence, and the only solution, imo, would be the intervention of a 3rd party.

by xixixao 13y ago

davidw 13y ago

> I am glad this has finally got to the top of HN Because once HN is aware of it, we'll... uhm... Send Putin some nasty Perl scripts? This, like almost all political / breaking news stories, is probably off topic for this site, given the guidelines: http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html http://ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html "Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic." This will probably be the opening item on most TV news shows this evening. It's currently the lead article on www.cnn.com www.corriere.it www.bbc.com/news/ etc...

coherentpony 13y ago
I don't know why you're being downvoted. This is entirely accurate.
enraged_camel 13y ago
I really wish "complaining about stuff being off-topic" was also against the guidelines. Oh wait, it is: "Please don't submit comments complaining that a submission is inappropriate for the site. If you think something is spam or offtopic, flag it by going to its page and clicking on the "flag" link. (Not all users will see this; there is a karma threshold.) If you flag something, please don't also comment that you did."
- davidw 13y ago
  If no one points it out, people won't learn. You folks can downvote all you want. I am more than willing to spend my "karma" to attempt to preserve this site from politics. Also, while we're being picky, "I wish it were", not "I wish it was".
  - asveikau 13y ago
    Good luck fighting the good fight, that ever noble pursuit of educating the masses about an arbitrary set of rules. Back in the real world, some of the most enlightening discussion is "off-topic". So this example is not HN, but: I still remember back in the heyday of Slashdot reading the thread on 9/11 as it happened. Did anybody complain that that wasn't "News for Nerds"? What's happening in Ukraine is in that similar category of potentially world-shaping events. It doesn't hurt any of us to start paying attention.
    - enraged_camel 13y ago
      Exactly. If whatever is happening in Ukraine ends up sparking a large-scale war (hopefully not), you will be reading about it in history books. That makes it both new and interesting, which fits the guidelines.
    - davidw 13y ago
      One major correction: "It doesn't hurt any of us to start paying attention." Do not confuse "not wanting it on HN" with "not paying attention". Have you read the commentary here? A lot of it is really bad.
      - asveikau 13y ago
        > Have you read the commentary here? A lot of it is really bad. I agree a lot of it is pretty far from the mark, but I object more strongly to the idea that one must dogmatically follow the rules. Also, I do think folks here sometimes get carried away with the "no politics" rule in particular, as if to define politics too broadly or kind of miss the point. (OK, so this has political implications, but imagining some sort of time warp, would you deny a story on World War II because it's "too political"?)
        davidw 13y ago
        I think politics is fascinating. But 99% of internet discussions about politics are crap. I'm beginning to develop some theories about that revolving around the idea that good discussion is costly, and cheap shots/conspiracy theories/empty words are very cheap, meaning the former get crowded out by the latter. In any event though, the discussions are pretty much horrible and worsen the site, which is one of the few good places to discuss hacking and startups out there.
raldi 13y ago
People said the same thing on Slashdot after 9/11, and they were wrong then, too. Once-a-generation events, with major impacts that last for decades across an entire region of the world, transcend "news for nerds" guidelines.
- glogla 13y ago
  Well, this is really not once per generation. They did this with Georgia and Moldavia already. And more are to follow.
  - davidw 13y ago
    And indeed, there it goes - it's dropping off the front page like a lead balloon.
- Pacabel 13y ago
  But Slashdot today is also a mere shadow of what it was in 2001. At least some of the decline in readership over there has been due to a gradual increase in politics-oriented submissions being shown on the front page, rather than technology/science-oriented submissions. While events like this do have significance, without a doubt, there is already ample coverage in a very wide variety of general news outlets. Many of the ones that are online allow for discussion, as well. So there's little need or reason for news sites focusing on rather specific topics like technology, science, mathematics and entrepreneurship to devote page space to rather unrelated political topics. The focus and the depth of coverage is what makes such sites appealing in the first place. Diluting them with news that can be found elsewhere is counterproductive.
xixixao 13y ago
I would agree if it weren't for the following: There are already many political topics discussed here. That's a reality. As people always point out, they are interesting to large number of people. Maybe HN is over the purely-technical-topics phase. I know many Americans read HN and this is a great opportunity to spread the word amongst those who might not have the experience to care. U.S. is still a democracy and at least in terms of public popularity its politicians care about their citizens' opinions. So, no Pearl scripts, but maybe this will help strengthen the U.S. position which is of paramount importance at this point.
xixixao 13y ago
I would agree if it weren't for the following: There are already many political topics discussed here. That's a reality. As people always point out, they are interesting to large number of people. Maybe HN is over the purely-technical-topics phase. I know many Americans read HN and this is a great opportunity to spread the word amongst those who might not have the experience to care. U.S. is still a democracy and at least in terms of public popularity its politicians care about their citizens' opinions. So, no Pearl scripts, but maybe this will help strengthen the U.S. position which is of paramount importance at this point.
xixixao 13y ago
I would agree if it weren't for the following: There are already many political topics discussed here. That's a reality. As people always point out, they are interesting to large number of people. Maybe HN is over the purely-technical-topics phase. I know many Americans read HN and this is a great opportunity to spread the word amongst those who might not have the experience to care. U.S. is still a democracy and at least in terms of public popularity its politicians care about their citizens' opinions. So, no Pearl scripts, but maybe this will help strengthen the U.S. position which is of paramount importance at this point.

osipov 13y ago

"a part of sovereign country is being aggressively annexed by their neighbor"...sounds like you are getting your media fix from Fox News

danmaz74 13y ago
Did Ukraine attack Russia in any way? No. Is Ukraine a sovereign Country? Yes. Is Russia sending troops to Ukraine? Yes. This is an invasion. Isn't an invasion an aggression? If not, what is?
- gk1 13y ago
  You're oversimplifying the situation. Yes, Ukraine is a sovereign country. But half of it is ethnically Russian, and identify themselves a such. The Ukrainian border--like many geopolitical borders--is arbitrary and does not signify a single united nation. I'm not saying one side is right and the other is wrong. I'm just highlighting the fact that's it's not as simple as you make it out to be.
  - danmaz74 13y ago
    This could have justified a referendum. Not an occupation. That IS an act of war. Or you think that France could occupy the French-speaking part of Swiss and that wouldn't be an act of aggression?
    - solnyshok 13y ago
      Is there a part of constitution of Ukraine that allows some region of it to split away from Ukraine?
  - restlessmike 13y ago
    Just wanted to point out that Ukraine is not half ethnically Russian; large parts of the country speak the Russian language but only 17% are ethnically Russian. Even these ethnic Russians are still Ukrainian citizens, making any claim by Russia to be "protecting" them rather dubious.

9248 13y ago

I'm glad this is getting more attention since the vast majority of the developed world doesn't share a lot of knowledge regarding Easter Europe / post Soviet countries. What's happening currently in Ukraine can easily happen in any other country that's under Russian's sphere of influence, and the only solution, imo, would be the intervention of a 3rd party.