And my point is that the default behavior of both collectors -- the behavior from the very first word of their first call -- was in violation, and they continue

And my point is that the default behavior of both collectors -- the behavior from the very first word of their first call -- was in violation, and they continued to violate the law in numerous ways. If an entire industry is so systematically rotten that good behavior (read: compliance with the law) is the exception rather than the norm, what is one to do? For example, if the debt collector does not provide any written notice and refuses to provide an address to which one can mail a written notice of dispute, what is one to do? If the debt is intrinsically fraudulent, and the "validation" of the debt consists solely of confirming its veracity with the party committing fraud, what is one to do? If one tries to dispute a fraudulent claim when speaking to a debt collector on the phone and one is told "I don't fucking care, if you don't give me a goddamn credit card number right fucking now I'm going to garnish your wages and fucking destroy your credit!", what is one to do? And don't tell me that I should complain to the FTC -- since there was no written communication, and I couldn't identify the parties involved, they were unable/unwilling/uninterested in helping me. At this point I have no sympathy for debt collectors. The very best of them are preying upon people who are already in a bad position and that's being generous. I'm almost tempted to be late on a bill or two just so I can use this service (whatever it may be -- still can't access it) in an attempt to discourage these vermin from continuing in their chosen "profession".