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When I was 4, I threw a tantrum in the middle of a mall because my mom wouldn't buy me a toy. In exasperation, she sat down at a bench and let me embarrass mys

When I was 4, I threw a tantrum in the middle of a mall because my mom wouldn't buy me a toy. In exasperation, she sat down at a bench and let me embarrass myself for a half hour. Kid's gotta learn eventually he can't get his way by being a brat, eh?

sentenza 13y ago
Everybody who doesn't have children, read the parent post! Most children will go through a phase where they throw tantrums. Different children have different needs, but for some you just have to let them kick and sream themselves to the realization that it doesn't get them anywere. So while it might be unfortunate that this interrupts your afternoon shopping, it is no reason to walk over to the parent an lecture them on what they should or shouldn't do, or better yet, tell them they should be ashamed of themselves! It's not like the parent is having fun or being even remotely not uncomfortable while it happens.
- mcv 13y ago
  And shaming that parent into giving in to their child's unreasonable demands just ensures that the child will throw more tantrums in the future. And they work because bystanders will shame the parent into giving in. Don't be that person; support the parent.
  - vidarh 13y ago
    And that includes not giving eye contact, encouraging smiles or otherwise engaging with the child. But the problem of course is that for many bystanders it is hard to tell when a child is being a brat, and when a child is being mistreated. Especially if they're not a parent themselves.
- vidarh 13y ago
  For most people, regardless of age, withdrawing attention when they act negatively tends to relatively quickly make them change their behaviour. Works on toddlers, co-workers, friends. Anyone. People have a deep psychological need for attention, and negative attention is often better than no attention. Attention is often the best way to both reward and punish someone, by giving or withdrawing it (not through negative attention). But yes, you need to be prepared for uncomfortable moments at first if you've let them get away with it previously. And you should be consistent - especially with children, consistency makes a huge difference. And for children it of course needs to be much more obvious - with my son I will tell him when I am withdrawing attention, why, and what he can do to get my attention again.
rz2k 13y ago
>can't get his way by being a brat, eh? As you know, everyone's opinion on child rearing is the one true way. We know that some parenting techniques encourage children to play helpless or enraged if it consistently achieves goals they want. We also know that certain types of treatment make them less likely to whine, or cry when hurt. When Fred Rodgers talks to a little boy and asks him about what makes him really mad inside, is he encouraging temper tantrums, or is he standing in contrast to the spectrum of a boozy mummy and daddy on one side who don't want disruption and a short tempered, beaten down set of parents on the other? If you live in a highly structured, hierarchical society with a strong patronage system, your children are probably going to live better lives if you breed a strong sense of deference to authority. If that isn't the case, being kind of mousy might find them mousy lives. Whining may be really unpleasant for any adult in the vicinity, yet unjustified whining from a 4 year old is not the same as unjustified whining from a 25 year old. If it's unjustified the 25 year old is choosing to be a victim. On the other hand, the 4 year old does not have the rational or emotional capacity to judge what is or is not the end of the world. You can train the 4 year old to no longer whine, by focusing on the whining and making that a singular, traumatic event. And yet, what you probably want, is for your child to fight back on things that actually matter, and also to use more effective means than pathetic whining. --Ineffective, bad argumentation techniques used on embarrassingly unimportant topics-- And yet, a four year old is unlikely to see that as the banner. Instead, they are likely to see, mommy or daddy goes nuclear if I insist "I must have". You remembered the incident clear enough to make the connection that it was a a dumb issue that your toddler self were pushing, but another toddler would have just interpreted it as a statement about who was in charge, or for it to be wrong to feel strongly. In the grown up world, how often do people unjustifiably feel that it is presumptuous to ask for a raise. Or, how much innovation has been hindered by people bowing their head when their boss ignores their idea, rather than going out on their own and putting their former employer out of business. Anyway, back to the original topic, programs with in-app purchases are intended to get money, and some are sophisticated enough to manipulate adults into spending more than they otherwise would. There are a few options here. You can have a teachable moment: don't ask mommy and daddy for things. Or the teachable moment: <long explanation about the subtleties of marketing, which your 4yo won't understand anyway>. Or finally, a short time with a game <without in-app purchases>, then later some fun finger painting. Since, sadly, the presence of some childish behaviors that are unpleasant to adults are better than their absence, an absence of triggers can be nice. You can know how to scare your child from whining, decide not to, but also hold the combination of beliefs that you don't want to spoil them and you don't want to hear whining on this particular car trip. You know that just buying whatever is not a viable choice, but it would be nice if such teachable moments only occurred in the grocery checkout line rather than also in the car.

sentenza 13y ago

Everybody who doesn't have children, read the parent post! Most children will go through a phase where they throw tantrums. Different children have different needs, but for some you just have to let them kick and sream themselves to the realization that it doesn't get them anywere. So while it might be unfortunate that this interrupts your afternoon shopping, it is no reason to walk over to the parent an lecture them on what they should or shouldn't do, or better yet, tell them they should be ashamed of themselves! It's not like the parent is having fun or being even remotely not uncomfortable while it happens.

mcv 13y ago
And shaming that parent into giving in to their child's unreasonable demands just ensures that the child will throw more tantrums in the future. And they work because bystanders will shame the parent into giving in. Don't be that person; support the parent.
- vidarh 13y ago
  And that includes not giving eye contact, encouraging smiles or otherwise engaging with the child. But the problem of course is that for many bystanders it is hard to tell when a child is being a brat, and when a child is being mistreated. Especially if they're not a parent themselves.
vidarh 13y ago
For most people, regardless of age, withdrawing attention when they act negatively tends to relatively quickly make them change their behaviour. Works on toddlers, co-workers, friends. Anyone. People have a deep psychological need for attention, and negative attention is often better than no attention. Attention is often the best way to both reward and punish someone, by giving or withdrawing it (not through negative attention). But yes, you need to be prepared for uncomfortable moments at first if you've let them get away with it previously. And you should be consistent - especially with children, consistency makes a huge difference. And for children it of course needs to be much more obvious - with my son I will tell him when I am withdrawing attention, why, and what he can do to get my attention again.

rz2k 13y ago

>can't get his way by being a brat, eh? As you know, everyone's opinion on child rearing is the one true way. We know that some parenting techniques encourage children to play helpless or enraged if it consistently achieves goals they want. We also know that certain types of treatment make them less likely to whine, or cry when hurt. When Fred Rodgers talks to a little boy and asks him about what makes him really mad inside, is he encouraging temper tantrums, or is he standing in contrast to the spectrum of a boozy mummy and daddy on one side who don't want disruption and a short tempered, beaten down set of parents on the other? If you live in a highly structured, hierarchical society with a strong patronage system, your children are probably going to live better lives if you breed a strong sense of deference to authority. If that isn't the case, being kind of mousy might find them mousy lives. Whining may be really unpleasant for any adult in the vicinity, yet unjustified whining from a 4 year old is not the same as unjustified whining from a 25 year old. If it's unjustified the 25 year old is choosing to be a victim. On the other hand, the 4 year old does not have the rational or emotional capacity to judge what is or is not the end of the world. You can train the 4 year old to no longer whine, by focusing on the whining and making that a singular, traumatic event. And yet, what you probably want, is for your child to fight back on things that actually matter, and also to use more effective means than pathetic whining. --Ineffective, bad argumentation techniques used on embarrassingly unimportant topics-- And yet, a four year old is unlikely to see that as the banner. Instead, they are likely to see, mommy or daddy goes nuclear if I insist "I must have". You remembered the incident clear enough to make the connection that it was a a dumb issue that your toddler self were pushing, but another toddler would have just interpreted it as a statement about who was in charge, or for it to be wrong to feel strongly. In the grown up world, how often do people unjustifiably feel that it is presumptuous to ask for a raise. Or, how much innovation has been hindered by people bowing their head when their boss ignores their idea, rather than going out on their own and putting their former employer out of business. Anyway, back to the original topic, programs with in-app purchases are intended to get money, and some are sophisticated enough to manipulate adults into spending more than they otherwise would. There are a few options here. You can have a teachable moment: don't ask mommy and daddy for things. Or the teachable moment: <long explanation about the subtleties of marketing, which your 4yo won't understand anyway>. Or finally, a short time with a game <without in-app purchases>, then later some fun finger painting. Since, sadly, the presence of some childish behaviors that are unpleasant to adults are better than their absence, an absence of triggers can be nice. You can know how to scare your child from whining, decide not to, but also hold the combination of beliefs that you don't want to spoil them and you don't want to hear whining on this particular car trip. You know that just buying whatever is not a viable choice, but it would be nice if such teachable moments only occurred in the grocery checkout line rather than also in the car.