4 ms·

Personally I would like to see iAP to be considered like advertising and for it to be more heavily regulated at child audiences. Tired of my 4 year old crying

by nnutter 13y ago

Personally I would like to see iAP to be considered like advertising and for it to be more heavily regulated at child audiences. Tired of my 4 year old crying because I won't let him spend another $4 to unlock another widget.

CatMtKing 13y ago
When I was 4, I threw a tantrum in the middle of a mall because my mom wouldn't buy me a toy. In exasperation, she sat down at a bench and let me embarrass myself for a half hour. Kid's gotta learn eventually he can't get his way by being a brat, eh?
- sentenza 13y ago
  Everybody who doesn't have children, read the parent post! Most children will go through a phase where they throw tantrums. Different children have different needs, but for some you just have to let them kick and sream themselves to the realization that it doesn't get them anywere. So while it might be unfortunate that this interrupts your afternoon shopping, it is no reason to walk over to the parent an lecture them on what they should or shouldn't do, or better yet, tell them they should be ashamed of themselves! It's not like the parent is having fun or being even remotely not uncomfortable while it happens.
  - mcv 13y ago
    And shaming that parent into giving in to their child's unreasonable demands just ensures that the child will throw more tantrums in the future. And they work because bystanders will shame the parent into giving in. Don't be that person; support the parent.
    - vidarh 13y ago
      And that includes not giving eye contact, encouraging smiles or otherwise engaging with the child. But the problem of course is that for many bystanders it is hard to tell when a child is being a brat, and when a child is being mistreated. Especially if they're not a parent themselves.
  - vidarh 13y ago
    For most people, regardless of age, withdrawing attention when they act negatively tends to relatively quickly make them change their behaviour. Works on toddlers, co-workers, friends. Anyone. People have a deep psychological need for attention, and negative attention is often better than no attention. Attention is often the best way to both reward and punish someone, by giving or withdrawing it (not through negative attention). But yes, you need to be prepared for uncomfortable moments at first if you've let them get away with it previously. And you should be consistent - especially with children, consistency makes a huge difference. And for children it of course needs to be much more obvious - with my son I will tell him when I am withdrawing attention, why, and what he can do to get my attention again.
- rz2k 13y ago
  >can't get his way by being a brat, eh? As you know, everyone's opinion on child rearing is the one true way. We know that some parenting techniques encourage children to play helpless or enraged if it consistently achieves goals they want. We also know that certain types of treatment make them less likely to whine, or cry when hurt. When Fred Rodgers talks to a little boy and asks him about what makes him really mad inside, is he encouraging temper tantrums, or is he standing in contrast to the spectrum of a boozy mummy and daddy on one side who don't want disruption and a short tempered, beaten down set of parents on the other? If you live in a highly structured, hierarchical society with a strong patronage system, your children are probably going to live better lives if you breed a strong sense of deference to authority. If that isn't the case, being kind of mousy might find them mousy lives. Whining may be really unpleasant for any adult in the vicinity, yet unjustified whining from a 4 year old is not the same as unjustified whining from a 25 year old. If it's unjustified the 25 year old is choosing to be a victim. On the other hand, the 4 year old does not have the rational or emotional capacity to judge what is or is not the end of the world. You can train the 4 year old to no longer whine, by focusing on the whining and making that a singular, traumatic event. And yet, what you probably want, is for your child to fight back on things that actually matter, and also to use more effective means than pathetic whining. --Ineffective, bad argumentation techniques used on embarrassingly unimportant topics-- And yet, a four year old is unlikely to see that as the banner. Instead, they are likely to see, mommy or daddy goes nuclear if I insist "I must have". You remembered the incident clear enough to make the connection that it was a a dumb issue that your toddler self were pushing, but another toddler would have just interpreted it as a statement about who was in charge, or for it to be wrong to feel strongly. In the grown up world, how often do people unjustifiably feel that it is presumptuous to ask for a raise. Or, how much innovation has been hindered by people bowing their head when their boss ignores their idea, rather than going out on their own and putting their former employer out of business. Anyway, back to the original topic, programs with in-app purchases are intended to get money, and some are sophisticated enough to manipulate adults into spending more than they otherwise would. There are a few options here. You can have a teachable moment: don't ask mommy and daddy for things. Or the teachable moment: <long explanation about the subtleties of marketing, which your 4yo won't understand anyway>. Or finally, a short time with a game <without in-app purchases>, then later some fun finger painting. Since, sadly, the presence of some childish behaviors that are unpleasant to adults are better than their absence, an absence of triggers can be nice. You can know how to scare your child from whining, decide not to, but also hold the combination of beliefs that you don't want to spoil them and you don't want to hear whining on this particular car trip. You know that just buying whatever is not a viable choice, but it would be nice if such teachable moments only occurred in the grocery checkout line rather than also in the car.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
brudgers 13y ago
Next time a child asks for permission to make an in app purchase, turn off the electronics go down to the creek and jump in puddles together. They are only four once. It's right now or it doesn't happen. There's no second chance.
- nnutter 13y ago
  I enjoy making cartoons with him just as much as jumping in puddles.
- Dewie 13y ago
  Kids should have a childhood like I experienced/like I wanted, or else it will be a wasted childhood. I don't think that kids should play a lot of video games (I don't know what they should or should not do, since I'm not a child development expert). But this whole adults looking back at their "organic" childhood as the one true way to grow up ever is getting kind of old. Lego? Damnit, take those silly toys away from him and give 'em a garn and let them make up their own games. I tell you these advanced toys destroys the natural creativity of children. Give 'em a stick and some garn and they will make up their own games; that's how kids are SUPPOSED to be.
  - brudgers 13y ago
    I was working as a City Planner and an elderly black man was sitting in the visitor chair across the desk and looking out the window. He'd come there so I could say "no". He wasn't a first time developer. He'd known he'd get no when he'd been sent to the office with my desk. That's why he hadn't come there first and now that we'd gone through the motions and. the anticipated "no" had been said he asked if I fished. A little. I like to take my son. You will never regret a moment spent fishing with him. I'm not waxing wistful for my childhood or for one I didn't have,. I'm waxing wistful for my first years as a parent and for the things I did and wish I had done more
    - vidarh 13y ago
      Same still applies, though: You're jumping to conclusions about what is important to others. I play video games with my 4 year old. He loves it, and he loves doing it with me more than the games themselves. We take him out lots too, but I have equally fond memories of times I've spent playing games with him as the ones I've spent with him on outdoors activities.
wyager 13y ago
This sounds like a parenting problem, not a legal problem.
- nnutter 13y ago
  It's not a parenting problem that a human brain develops over many years and is initially incapable of understanding some of the constraints the world places on it.
  - joesb 13y ago
    > initially incapable So teach them? Isn't that what the parent post was saying?
    - vidarh 13y ago
      Teaching them is not an instant process. And given the number of these in app purchases that manages to lure in parents, that's totally unrealistic in any case.
      - joesb 13y ago
        What's unrealistic about not letting your kids buy IAP? You set parental control and tell them they are not allowed to buy IAP and that's it. You also have to teach kids to brush their teeth every night. That's 365 times a year. Is that unrealistic to teach them, too? Or is teaching them to brush their teeth an instant process?
tolmasky 13y ago
And my parents were tired of me asking for sugary cereals. And yet both they and I survived, and I probably got to eat that cereal three total times in my childhood. Not getting things is an important lesson, especially in a world that will only increase the pressure to buy things in the future (legislation won't stop his peers from telling him to buy cool shoes). And if you disagree with that statement (perfectly reasonable to do so), then it's still not really someone else's responsibility to hide him from it, you should feel free to do so.

by nnutter 13y ago

CatMtKing 13y ago

When I was 4, I threw a tantrum in the middle of a mall because my mom wouldn't buy me a toy. In exasperation, she sat down at a bench and let me embarrass myself for a half hour. Kid's gotta learn eventually he can't get his way by being a brat, eh?

sentenza 13y ago
Everybody who doesn't have children, read the parent post! Most children will go through a phase where they throw tantrums. Different children have different needs, but for some you just have to let them kick and sream themselves to the realization that it doesn't get them anywere. So while it might be unfortunate that this interrupts your afternoon shopping, it is no reason to walk over to the parent an lecture them on what they should or shouldn't do, or better yet, tell them they should be ashamed of themselves! It's not like the parent is having fun or being even remotely not uncomfortable while it happens.
- mcv 13y ago
  And shaming that parent into giving in to their child's unreasonable demands just ensures that the child will throw more tantrums in the future. And they work because bystanders will shame the parent into giving in. Don't be that person; support the parent.
  - vidarh 13y ago
    And that includes not giving eye contact, encouraging smiles or otherwise engaging with the child. But the problem of course is that for many bystanders it is hard to tell when a child is being a brat, and when a child is being mistreated. Especially if they're not a parent themselves.
- vidarh 13y ago
  For most people, regardless of age, withdrawing attention when they act negatively tends to relatively quickly make them change their behaviour. Works on toddlers, co-workers, friends. Anyone. People have a deep psychological need for attention, and negative attention is often better than no attention. Attention is often the best way to both reward and punish someone, by giving or withdrawing it (not through negative attention). But yes, you need to be prepared for uncomfortable moments at first if you've let them get away with it previously. And you should be consistent - especially with children, consistency makes a huge difference. And for children it of course needs to be much more obvious - with my son I will tell him when I am withdrawing attention, why, and what he can do to get my attention again.
rz2k 13y ago
>can't get his way by being a brat, eh? As you know, everyone's opinion on child rearing is the one true way. We know that some parenting techniques encourage children to play helpless or enraged if it consistently achieves goals they want. We also know that certain types of treatment make them less likely to whine, or cry when hurt. When Fred Rodgers talks to a little boy and asks him about what makes him really mad inside, is he encouraging temper tantrums, or is he standing in contrast to the spectrum of a boozy mummy and daddy on one side who don't want disruption and a short tempered, beaten down set of parents on the other? If you live in a highly structured, hierarchical society with a strong patronage system, your children are probably going to live better lives if you breed a strong sense of deference to authority. If that isn't the case, being kind of mousy might find them mousy lives. Whining may be really unpleasant for any adult in the vicinity, yet unjustified whining from a 4 year old is not the same as unjustified whining from a 25 year old. If it's unjustified the 25 year old is choosing to be a victim. On the other hand, the 4 year old does not have the rational or emotional capacity to judge what is or is not the end of the world. You can train the 4 year old to no longer whine, by focusing on the whining and making that a singular, traumatic event. And yet, what you probably want, is for your child to fight back on things that actually matter, and also to use more effective means than pathetic whining. --Ineffective, bad argumentation techniques used on embarrassingly unimportant topics-- And yet, a four year old is unlikely to see that as the banner. Instead, they are likely to see, mommy or daddy goes nuclear if I insist "I must have". You remembered the incident clear enough to make the connection that it was a a dumb issue that your toddler self were pushing, but another toddler would have just interpreted it as a statement about who was in charge, or for it to be wrong to feel strongly. In the grown up world, how often do people unjustifiably feel that it is presumptuous to ask for a raise. Or, how much innovation has been hindered by people bowing their head when their boss ignores their idea, rather than going out on their own and putting their former employer out of business. Anyway, back to the original topic, programs with in-app purchases are intended to get money, and some are sophisticated enough to manipulate adults into spending more than they otherwise would. There are a few options here. You can have a teachable moment: don't ask mommy and daddy for things. Or the teachable moment: <long explanation about the subtleties of marketing, which your 4yo won't understand anyway>. Or finally, a short time with a game <without in-app purchases>, then later some fun finger painting. Since, sadly, the presence of some childish behaviors that are unpleasant to adults are better than their absence, an absence of triggers can be nice. You can know how to scare your child from whining, decide not to, but also hold the combination of beliefs that you don't want to spoil them and you don't want to hear whining on this particular car trip. You know that just buying whatever is not a viable choice, but it would be nice if such teachable moments only occurred in the grocery checkout line rather than also in the car.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

brudgers 13y ago

Next time a child asks for permission to make an in app purchase, turn off the electronics go down to the creek and jump in puddles together. They are only four once. It's right now or it doesn't happen. There's no second chance.

nnutter 13y ago
I enjoy making cartoons with him just as much as jumping in puddles.
Dewie 13y ago
Kids should have a childhood like I experienced/like I wanted, or else it will be a wasted childhood. I don't think that kids should play a lot of video games (I don't know what they should or should not do, since I'm not a child development expert). But this whole adults looking back at their "organic" childhood as the one true way to grow up ever is getting kind of old. Lego? Damnit, take those silly toys away from him and give 'em a garn and let them make up their own games. I tell you these advanced toys destroys the natural creativity of children. Give 'em a stick and some garn and they will make up their own games; that's how kids are SUPPOSED to be.
- brudgers 13y ago
  I was working as a City Planner and an elderly black man was sitting in the visitor chair across the desk and looking out the window. He'd come there so I could say "no". He wasn't a first time developer. He'd known he'd get no when he'd been sent to the office with my desk. That's why he hadn't come there first and now that we'd gone through the motions and. the anticipated "no" had been said he asked if I fished. A little. I like to take my son. You will never regret a moment spent fishing with him. I'm not waxing wistful for my childhood or for one I didn't have,. I'm waxing wistful for my first years as a parent and for the things I did and wish I had done more
  - vidarh 13y ago
    Same still applies, though: You're jumping to conclusions about what is important to others. I play video games with my 4 year old. He loves it, and he loves doing it with me more than the games themselves. We take him out lots too, but I have equally fond memories of times I've spent playing games with him as the ones I've spent with him on outdoors activities.

wyager 13y ago

This sounds like a parenting problem, not a legal problem.

nnutter 13y ago
It's not a parenting problem that a human brain develops over many years and is initially incapable of understanding some of the constraints the world places on it.
- joesb 13y ago
  > initially incapable So teach them? Isn't that what the parent post was saying?
  - vidarh 13y ago
    Teaching them is not an instant process. And given the number of these in app purchases that manages to lure in parents, that's totally unrealistic in any case.
    - joesb 13y ago
      What's unrealistic about not letting your kids buy IAP? You set parental control and tell them they are not allowed to buy IAP and that's it. You also have to teach kids to brush their teeth every night. That's 365 times a year. Is that unrealistic to teach them, too? Or is teaching them to brush their teeth an instant process?

tolmasky 13y ago

And my parents were tired of me asking for sugary cereals. And yet both they and I survived, and I probably got to eat that cereal three total times in my childhood. Not getting things is an important lesson, especially in a world that will only increase the pressure to buy things in the future (legislation won't stop his peers from telling him to buy cool shoes). And if you disagree with that statement (perfectly reasonable to do so), then it's still not really someone else's responsibility to hide him from it, you should feel free to do so.