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Yep. Controlling the gatekeepers of public conversation is a measure that is squarely in the court of totalitarianism-- this leak was the evidence needed to beg

Yep. Controlling the gatekeepers of public conversation is a measure that is squarely in the court of totalitarianism-- this leak was the evidence needed to begin calling the USA a right wing authoritarian/totalitarian state. I really wish the mainstream media had picked up this story, because it'd be an easy way to convince the public that the government is targeting them as an enemy. It's blatant evidence that the government is interested in controlling thought regardless of involvement with terrorism or national security. It's foolish to think that they wouldn't try to gain positions of power in bastions of alternative thought and activism. Admittedly, reddit is extremely mainstream-- but it's still a place for citizens to communicate with each other and discuss happenings. It'd be invaluable control-wise to be able to influence conversations there.

wooter 13y ago
really wish you had dropped the "right wing"... its a false dichotomy which we really need to stop perpetuating.
- cryoshon 13y ago
  The US is far to the right relative to the rest of the world, but I get where you're coming from. I didn't mean to imply that the "right wing" was the crux of the problem-- totalitarianism is the problem.
  - jamiesonbecker 13y ago
    Right. (hah) The non-establishment right wing and tea party appears just as much angry/worried about the increasing collusion between government and wall street as the non-establishment left, if not even more. Increasingly, big govt and big business are becoming harder to tell apart. Corruption is everywhere, but the scariest part is the ability of US govt to silence and intimidate critics both without and within.
- jbooth 13y ago
  When short-haired, god-fearing and country-loving patriots are the good guys (no cops bust up a tea party rally), while the long-haired hippies are the bad guys (see COINTELPRO, police treatment of occupy or the WTO protests), what else you want to call it? Yes, there are more dimensions to politics than 'left' and 'right', but it does indeed seem that the security services are always worried about a certain type.
  - steveplace 13y ago
    Well on the extreme end of things you have ruby ridge and waco. Then you've got the addition of militia groups to Domestic terror lists. And then you have the IRS specifically targeting right wing non-profits.
    - jbooth 13y ago
      Well, let's distinguish between degrees here. Both Occupy and the Tea Party have silly, simplistic solutions to real problems, and aren't violent. The cops really have no business hassling either group, let alone infiltrating them like they want to be secret agents. Actual militia groups.. I mean, Oklahoma City happened, right? Imagine if there was a group of hippies or, god forbid, Muslims with the level of rhetoric that some of these militia groups have along with the training routines and arsenals to prove they're serious. My beef with how the police treat hippies and muslims is the well-documented, "infiltrate, keep suggesting violent actions until someone says 'maybe', then arrest them" routine. If someone's suggesting violent actions ahead of time and making actual preparations for such without prompting, then that may actually be a threat. Regardless of politics. EDIT: This is not to say the ATF acted appropriately at Ruby Ridge or Waco. They shouldn't be the first ones shooting.
    - djur 13y ago
      The IRS never specifically targeted right wing non-profits. The list of keywords they used included both right wing indicators like "tea party" and left wing indicators like "progressive". The tax categorization these organizations were applying for is meant to exclude political activism, so flagging organizations with explicitly political names was a reasonable approach.
- pdkl95 13y ago
  "Right Wing Authitarian" is a term defined by Bob Altemeyer. It does not map exactly to the left/right usually associated with politics. It is intended to refer to the authoritarian personality type, regardless of their political positions. His book on the subject ("The Authoritarians") is incredible, and has a lot to say about the rise in authoritarianism that has been slowly creeping into today's politics. https://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/ https://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_authoritarianism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_authoritarianism
TomSawyer 13y ago
Here's an enlightening video on the political spectrum: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DioQooFIcgE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DioQooFIcgE
- dredmorbius 13y ago
  Ascribing a single axis analysis to any complex phenomenon is almost certainly a gross oversimplification. Government can be ascribed a number of properties: overall effectiveness or strength, degree of representation, succession, governing principles, balance of powers (among branches, population sectors, business / religion / laity, etc.), and other factors. There are also dynamics suggesting that the level of complexity of society is contingent on the resources available to it. Including the freedoms of its government. That said: the video is fair. Not great.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

wooter 13y ago

really wish you had dropped the "right wing"... its a false dichotomy which we really need to stop perpetuating.

cryoshon 13y ago
The US is far to the right relative to the rest of the world, but I get where you're coming from. I didn't mean to imply that the "right wing" was the crux of the problem-- totalitarianism is the problem.
- jamiesonbecker 13y ago
  Right. (hah) The non-establishment right wing and tea party appears just as much angry/worried about the increasing collusion between government and wall street as the non-establishment left, if not even more. Increasingly, big govt and big business are becoming harder to tell apart. Corruption is everywhere, but the scariest part is the ability of US govt to silence and intimidate critics both without and within.
jbooth 13y ago
When short-haired, god-fearing and country-loving patriots are the good guys (no cops bust up a tea party rally), while the long-haired hippies are the bad guys (see COINTELPRO, police treatment of occupy or the WTO protests), what else you want to call it? Yes, there are more dimensions to politics than 'left' and 'right', but it does indeed seem that the security services are always worried about a certain type.
- steveplace 13y ago
  Well on the extreme end of things you have ruby ridge and waco. Then you've got the addition of militia groups to Domestic terror lists. And then you have the IRS specifically targeting right wing non-profits.
  - jbooth 13y ago
    Well, let's distinguish between degrees here. Both Occupy and the Tea Party have silly, simplistic solutions to real problems, and aren't violent. The cops really have no business hassling either group, let alone infiltrating them like they want to be secret agents. Actual militia groups.. I mean, Oklahoma City happened, right? Imagine if there was a group of hippies or, god forbid, Muslims with the level of rhetoric that some of these militia groups have along with the training routines and arsenals to prove they're serious. My beef with how the police treat hippies and muslims is the well-documented, "infiltrate, keep suggesting violent actions until someone says 'maybe', then arrest them" routine. If someone's suggesting violent actions ahead of time and making actual preparations for such without prompting, then that may actually be a threat. Regardless of politics. EDIT: This is not to say the ATF acted appropriately at Ruby Ridge or Waco. They shouldn't be the first ones shooting.
  - djur 13y ago
    The IRS never specifically targeted right wing non-profits. The list of keywords they used included both right wing indicators like "tea party" and left wing indicators like "progressive". The tax categorization these organizations were applying for is meant to exclude political activism, so flagging organizations with explicitly political names was a reasonable approach.
pdkl95 13y ago
"Right Wing Authitarian" is a term defined by Bob Altemeyer. It does not map exactly to the left/right usually associated with politics. It is intended to refer to the authoritarian personality type, regardless of their political positions. His book on the subject ("The Authoritarians") is incredible, and has a lot to say about the rise in authoritarianism that has been slowly creeping into today's politics. https://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/ https://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_authoritarianism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_authoritarianism

TomSawyer 13y ago

Here's an enlightening video on the political spectrum: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DioQooFIcgE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DioQooFIcgE

dredmorbius 13y ago
Ascribing a single axis analysis to any complex phenomenon is almost certainly a gross oversimplification. Government can be ascribed a number of properties: overall effectiveness or strength, degree of representation, succession, governing principles, balance of powers (among branches, population sectors, business / religion / laity, etc.), and other factors. There are also dynamics suggesting that the level of complexity of society is contingent on the resources available to it. Including the freedoms of its government. That said: the video is fair. Not great.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]