4 ms·

Of course Apple can release cheap OSs, their machines cost twice as much as a PC. The total cost of ownership should be considered.

by viggity 13y ago

Karunamon 13y ago
The upgrades are also completely gratis. And again with the "Twice as much" myth? Do I really need to link the article that shows the discount being offered on the new Pro machines with the workstation chipset? And you're also not counting the reduction in cost from the bundled crapware that comes on most every OOTB PC.
- e40 13y ago
  The new Mac Pro is a joke. If you need to add more disks, you're adding an additional $1,500 to $2,500 for the external disk enclosure. That puts the base price, for 6 bays at $5,500! Now that is absurd.
  - slantyyz 13y ago
    And what's the benefit of a tiny chassis when you're still giving up more desk space for external hardware and a mess of cables? The Pro's impressive innovations in size and design, in my mind, were done for the sake of bragging rights than for practicality.
  - Karunamon 13y ago
    I can add external peripherals to any laptop/desktop and drive the price up as well. I'm talking out of the box.
    - e40 13y ago
      You are being disingenuous. The number of laptop users with a bunch of external disks compared to desktop users.... very, very different. This is about what is normal. My desktop machines have ALWAYS had more than just the boot drive. My laptops have NEVER had anything but the boot drive.
  - kayoone 13y ago
    To me this picture really sums up the misconception that is the new Mac Pro for real Pro Users: http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5487/12198664946_ca02d61f18_b.jpg http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5487/12198664946_ca02d61f18_b....
- kayoone 13y ago
  Apple hardware isn't overpriced (maybe slightly) if you compare it with similar offerings, BUT most people don't need/want/can afford premium hardware or get the same value out of a $400 laptop/desktop for their needs. So for many peoples basic computing needs, Apple is indeed much more expensive.
netcan 13y ago
To an extent that's tough luck for MS. Apple have a bundling strategy. Google have a 'see what sticks' strategy. Linux is open source. Samsung, Apple and anyone who wants to sell a tablet needs to compete with Amazon who can subsidize their tablet with ads or book sales or whatever else. MS wouldn't be the first software company to find that their system and method for causing customers to exchange cash for software is losing its potency in light of gradual technology and associated cultural changes. They are a powerful, cashed up, profitable company and this is competition.
e40 13y ago
Unless you build a Hackintosh[1]. I'm typing on mine right now. I jumped from Windows 7 because I use Windows 8.1 at work and hate it. I've totally loving the Hackintosh. I do lots of scripting, and while I love the crap outta the Cygwin people (heroes, all of them), it is soooo nice having a real unix under me, albeit a slightly weird one. Yeah, if it weren't for Lightroom, I'd be on Linux. I have a pretty beefy machine, but I spent less than $2000. [1] http://www.reddit.com/r/hackintosh/ http://www.reddit.com/r/hackintosh/
- Karunamon 13y ago
  I'm in the same boat myself. Right now I'm strongly considering picking up a mac mini and a nice displayport KVM switch. Last upgrade to Mavericks hosed my mackintosh install (panic on boot) and no amount of re-running the tools seems to fix it. There's also the small miscellaneous problems you have to deal with. I keep coming back to Windows for the games. Once Steam's streaming functionality is nailed down, I figure I'll build a nice beefy shoebox machine, throw Windows on it, put that box in the corner, and use the mini or a laptop as my main machine.
  - e40 13y ago
    What hardware do you have? I was very careful to use the hardware with for the path of least resistance. The installation took an hour. Then, I spent the next 3 days getting the RAID 1 for the boot drive working.
    - Karunamon 13y ago
      Gigabyte board, Gigabyte AMD video, Intel i5. I actually specced this machine out three-ish years ago with the express intent of hackintoshing. Except for some early issues with dual monitors back in the Snow Leopard/Lion days (we're talking hex editing the ATI driver kext), it has worked really well.
      - e40 13y ago
        Bummer. Well, if you haven't asked for help over at the tonymacx86.com forums yet, I would. Maybe someone there can spot the problem.
vonmoltke 13y ago
More accurately, Apple is selling you both the hardware and the software in a modern version of the old IBM model (give away the software to help sell the hardware).

Of course Apple can release cheap OSs, their machines cost twice as much as a PC. The total cost of ownership should be considered.

by viggity 13y ago

Of course Apple can release cheap OSs, their machines cost twice as much as a PC. The total cost of ownership should be considered.

Karunamon 13y ago

The upgrades are also completely gratis. And again with the "Twice as much" myth? Do I really need to link the article that shows the discount being offered on the new Pro machines with the workstation chipset? And you're also not counting the reduction in cost from the bundled crapware that comes on most every OOTB PC.

e40 13y ago
The new Mac Pro is a joke. If you need to add more disks, you're adding an additional $1,500 to $2,500 for the external disk enclosure. That puts the base price, for 6 bays at $5,500! Now that is absurd.
- slantyyz 13y ago
  And what's the benefit of a tiny chassis when you're still giving up more desk space for external hardware and a mess of cables? The Pro's impressive innovations in size and design, in my mind, were done for the sake of bragging rights than for practicality.
- Karunamon 13y ago
  I can add external peripherals to any laptop/desktop and drive the price up as well. I'm talking out of the box.
  - e40 13y ago
    You are being disingenuous. The number of laptop users with a bunch of external disks compared to desktop users.... very, very different. This is about what is normal. My desktop machines have ALWAYS had more than just the boot drive. My laptops have NEVER had anything but the boot drive.
- kayoone 13y ago
  To me this picture really sums up the misconception that is the new Mac Pro for real Pro Users: http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5487/12198664946_ca02d61f18_b.jpg http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5487/12198664946_ca02d61f18_b....
kayoone 13y ago
Apple hardware isn't overpriced (maybe slightly) if you compare it with similar offerings, BUT most people don't need/want/can afford premium hardware or get the same value out of a $400 laptop/desktop for their needs. So for many peoples basic computing needs, Apple is indeed much more expensive.

netcan 13y ago

To an extent that's tough luck for MS. Apple have a bundling strategy. Google have a 'see what sticks' strategy. Linux is open source. Samsung, Apple and anyone who wants to sell a tablet needs to compete with Amazon who can subsidize their tablet with ads or book sales or whatever else. MS wouldn't be the first software company to find that their system and method for causing customers to exchange cash for software is losing its potency in light of gradual technology and associated cultural changes. They are a powerful, cashed up, profitable company and this is competition.

e40 13y ago

Unless you build a Hackintosh[1]. I'm typing on mine right now. I jumped from Windows 7 because I use Windows 8.1 at work and hate it. I've totally loving the Hackintosh. I do lots of scripting, and while I love the crap outta the Cygwin people (heroes, all of them), it is soooo nice having a real unix under me, albeit a slightly weird one. Yeah, if it weren't for Lightroom, I'd be on Linux. I have a pretty beefy machine, but I spent less than $2000. [1] http://www.reddit.com/r/hackintosh/ http://www.reddit.com/r/hackintosh/

Karunamon 13y ago
I'm in the same boat myself. Right now I'm strongly considering picking up a mac mini and a nice displayport KVM switch. Last upgrade to Mavericks hosed my mackintosh install (panic on boot) and no amount of re-running the tools seems to fix it. There's also the small miscellaneous problems you have to deal with. I keep coming back to Windows for the games. Once Steam's streaming functionality is nailed down, I figure I'll build a nice beefy shoebox machine, throw Windows on it, put that box in the corner, and use the mini or a laptop as my main machine.
- e40 13y ago
  What hardware do you have? I was very careful to use the hardware with for the path of least resistance. The installation took an hour. Then, I spent the next 3 days getting the RAID 1 for the boot drive working.
  - Karunamon 13y ago
    Gigabyte board, Gigabyte AMD video, Intel i5. I actually specced this machine out three-ish years ago with the express intent of hackintoshing. Except for some early issues with dual monitors back in the Snow Leopard/Lion days (we're talking hex editing the ATI driver kext), it has worked really well.
    - e40 13y ago
      Bummer. Well, if you haven't asked for help over at the tonymacx86.com forums yet, I would. Maybe someone there can spot the problem.

vonmoltke 13y ago

More accurately, Apple is selling you both the hardware and the software in a modern version of the old IBM model (give away the software to help sell the hardware).