9 ms·

Microsoft Said To Be Considering A Free Version Of Windows 8.1

40 points by robot_scream 13y ago

Piskvorrr 13y ago
Not sure this will help: IMNSHO market already perceives COTS computers as "costs $x, plus has Windows for free."
- kenjackson 13y ago
  the OEMs don't perceive it that way. Acer could have two SKUs. One with the free version at 199 and the non free version at 249. I think a lot will buy the 199 version.
  - polshaw 13y ago
    Acer are already doing this with chromebooks and indeed, a lot are buying the 199 version.
    - Piskvorrr 13y ago
      A-ha! Now that makes sense: PCs are declining, and alternative OSes are eating a slice of this (traditionally MS-only) pie.
  - dsr_ 13y ago
    Asus tried that with the EEE netbooks. http://blogs.computerworld.com/microsoft_strikes_back_at_linux_netbook_push http://blogs.computerworld.com/microsoft_strikes_back_at_lin... (Money talks. Microsoft has a lot of money.)
    - Karunamon 13y ago
      It could easily be argued that the EEE machines didn't work because they were too small, badly designed, and way way underpowered. I'd put the Chromebook up there as one of the first netbooks that were not horrible.
      - Touche 13y ago
        EEE did work. They were highly successful and created the netbook category.
        Karunamon 13y ago
        Yet the model line was eventually switched to windows and then killed off entirely. Heck the netbook as a concept has been rather dormant before the Chromebook came along.
        Touche 13y ago
        The Ford Model T was also discontinued, was it a failure as well?
jmnicolas 13y ago
As I understand it, Microsoft needs to keep Windows everywhere so they can sell everything else (Office, Exchange, Server, SQL and Sharepoint). Why don't they give Windows for free ?
- chollida1 13y ago
  > Why don't they give Windows for free ? I think you know the reason, its because they make a shit load of money selling it. It's not at all clear that they would be better off giving it away for free.
  - jmnicolas 13y ago
    Sure but they're loosing ground. If I was them I'd rather make less money now and stay relevant for the next 20 years than satisfy my immediate greed and disappear* in the next decade ... * disappear is too strong but my English being limited I don't have the word I need to convey what I mean.
    - venomsnake 13y ago
      Slide into obscurity is probably the phrase you seek.
  - sirkneeland 13y ago
    At this point Windows is only a quarter of MS's revenue, and that is a figure that is sure to continue declining. The only question is whether it declines because they make it free, or because fewer people will be buying and using it.
    - JonoBB 13y ago
      "Only a quarter" is still $6bn per quarter (give or take). (Note, I haven't checked the 25% part, but their last quarter's revenue was ~$24bn).
- Retric 13y ago
  Microsoft could quickly sell a Linux version of Exchange or SharePoint even if it's just debugging a Wine version. However, by only selling Windows versions they make more money and increase the Windows ecosystem. Don't forget MS has enough cash on hand to handle huge market shifts so they can focus on maximizing short term profit.
collyw 13y ago
Yet again, both Microsoft and Apple following in the footsteps of Linux. Got to love the articles like with headlines like these: http://www.wired.com/business/2013/10/apple-ends-paid-oses/ http://www.wired.com/business/2013/10/apple-ends-paid-oses/
- aroch 13y ago
  This is an asinine comment. RHEL and SLED are enterprise-geared distros and paid products.
  - Piskvorrr 13y ago
    True. On the other hand, MS has to fear XP replacements which are not Windows, yet will run on the same old(er) HW that XP did; e.g. LXLE, which is geared specifically towards this goal: http://lxle.net/ http://lxle.net/
    - slantyyz 13y ago
      The biggest XP replacements that are not Windows are iPads and Android tablets -- at least for the majority of users who are primarily emailers and web surfers. Not sure if a free version of Windows is going to stop the bleeding there.
      - Piskvorrr 13y ago
        That's a good point as well.
  - collyw 13y ago
    They both have community editions (Fedora, openSuse) and I was under the impression you were paying for support rather than the product. Plus the article talks about a free version, which would imply that the relationship is similar.
    - aroch 13y ago
300bps 13y ago
"A free version of Windows 8.1? Those M$FT bastards are just trying to make more money!" -- 90% of responses that will show up here Anyway, Microsoft definitely needs to do something to eradicate the 29% of desktop users that are still using Windows XP which is a security disaster-waiting-to-happen. http://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0 http://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share....
- okasaki 13y ago
  I imagine a lot of machines running XP won't be able to run 8.1. IIRC even the minimum screen resolution of 1366x768 is above the popular old 1280x1024.
  - slantyyz 13y ago
    I think it will still run if your res is smaller than the minimum. I installed 8 on a crusty old 2004 laptop, and it runs at roughly the same speed. MS did a surprisingly good job with Windows 8 in that regard.
  - 300bps 13y ago
    I imagine a lot of machines running XP won't be able to run 8.1 Your imagination is completely wrong. Here are the minimum specifications: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/system-requirements http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/system-requirem... IIRC even the minimum screen resolution of 1366x768 Your memory is also completely wrong. Windows 8.1 does not have a minimum resolution of 1366x768. In fact, if you review the system requirements link above, you'll see that it works at less than 1024x768 but that certain features require 1024x768. Can you help me understand the purpose of your comment? I mean, obviously - you had no idea what you were talking about. You even knew it because you used weasel words like, "I imagine" or "IIRC". It makes me think you had some agenda to spread FUD about Windows 8.1 not working on older hardware.
    - okasaki 13y ago
      My memory isn't wrong. http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Windows-8.1/productID.288401200 http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Windows-... > Required memory 2GB > Required video card 1366 × 768 screen resolution; DirectX 9 graphics processor with WDDM driver
gegtik 13y ago
Why are we not linking source articles? I thought we were just hating on aggregators a second ago. This links to the Verge which repackaged the original ZDNet article: http://www.zdnet.com/microsofts-monetization-dilemma-bundlings-not-all-its-cracked-up-to-be-7000026852/ http://www.zdnet.com/microsofts-monetization-dilemma-bundlin...
philtar 13y ago
I called it. Here's what I said MSFT should do and it looks like they're on their way: Have a free version of windows that sends back analytics, displays ads every now and then etc. The normal version of windows that's for enterprise/government/the rest will get a significant price bump. I made the mistake of not putting my prediction on the internet before the free version was released. Now we wait for the price bump.
- d23 13y ago
  Uh, what? Did you think everyone would kiss your feet and praise you as a god if only you had put your random prediction somewhere on the internet?
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - philtar 13y ago
    Just a little bit of banter. Chill out.
- corresation 13y ago
  This is hardly a seer-like prediction. Instead it is an obvious consideration that recurs constantly. http://www.cnet.com.au/microsoft-eyes-making-desktop-apps-free-240058263.htm http://www.cnet.com.au/microsoft-eyes-making-desktop-apps-fr... That's from 2005.
reefoctopus 13y ago
Windows 8 is terrible. Free is still too expensive. It's Windows 7 with reduced functionality and an app store. I've been using Windows on my work laptops for the last 4 years because I use the adobe suite, and it's been easier. I've been stuck with Windows 8 on my most recent laptop, and yesterday I finally decided to switch to Ubuntu. Good riddance.
- circa 13y ago
  what functionality is lost in Windows 8.1 that 7 had?
  - pearjuice 13y ago
    The traditional start menu. A proper desktop instead of a tablet-optimized interface.
    - slantyyz 13y ago
      If you're a keyboard centric user, the start menu's not a huge loss as one would think. I used to think it was a big deal until I realized I stopped using the Dock on OSX in favor of Spotlight to launch stuff. When I started using Win8 and learned that I basically could keep the same habits by hitting the Windows key and typing the first few characters of what I wanted to launch, I stopped caring about the start menu. I used to think the idea of a touchscreen laptop was stupid, but Win8 works for me, and my main machine is still a Macbook Pro. I have a Surface Pro that I use in place of my original iPad, and I think Win8 is quite good in tile mode or desktop mode. It's still hurting in the area of power management though.
      - bbradley406 13y ago
        While you can use the same keyboard habits, I find it much worse. The whole screen gets taken over by a rainbow colored mess of an interface, instead of a concise list in the corner.
    - philliphaydon 13y ago
shmerl 13y ago
MS starts fearing really free OSes at last. Interesting times. What's next, MS will open source Windows?
- tunap 13y ago
  A few tens of millions of XP users would sure appreciate that, April 8th is fast approaching. MS has extended MSSE updates for XP 'til 6/2015... can't wait to see what they pull out of where next month. PS: I could have sworn I saw XP workstations running on the ISS while watching NASA archives couple days ago. I do not know how recent the archive footage was...
  - frik 13y ago
    NASA uses Windows XP on A31 & T61 Thinkpad notebooks: As of 2010, the Space Station was equipped with 68 ThinkPad A31 computers along with 32 new Lenovo ThinkPad T61p laptops plus a dedicated IP phone which also has limited video phone capabilities. Work incorporating those laptops into the station's LAN continued into June 2011. All laptops aboard the ISS are connected to the station's LAN via Wi-Fi and are connected to the ground at 3 Mbit/s up and 10 Mbit/s down, comparable to home DSL connection speeds. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ThinkPad#Use_in_space http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ThinkPad#Use_in_space
    - shmerl 13y ago
      Didn't they get rid of it and started using Linux?
AutoCorrect 13y ago
Windows 8.1, so bad they're giving it away for free. Seriously, doesn't this fall under monopoly no-nos?
- nsxwolf 13y ago
  Is there another commercial operating system that isn't free?
  - frik 13y ago
    various UNIX (Solaris, etc.), QNX, z/OS, etc. (and OS like iOS/MacOS on non-Apple hardware)
forgotAgain 13y ago
I have to admit, I dismissed the Chromebook when it was first introduced. It seems at this point that it's really been a market changer.
- Kurtz79 13y ago
  I believe that Apple aggressive pricing of the last operating systems (up to the current "free") had much more influence on the decision, together with Ubuntu progress in terms of usability. Edit: Probably is all off these put together, nowadays most users simply do not expect to pay for an updated OS.
- newleaf 13y ago
  It's the classic innovator's dilemma. ChromeOS was worse/cheaper than the existing options, but good enough for some people/uses.
- e40 13y ago
  I got a Chromebook for my teenager and one for myself at work for note taking, etc. It's been a win for the kid. At work, it's been a pain in the ass. Google spreadsheets is pretty bad and can't handle many of the spreadsheets I need to deal with on a regular basis. And, gotomeeting doesn't work on the Chromebook, even though they have a new web-based version. Printing is the Achilles heel, however there are new printers out that have Cloud Print built in. However, a agree, it is a game changer.
Karunamon 13y ago
It sounds a like this is going to be a gimped money-grab like "Windows 7 Starter edition" (where you can't even change the wallpaper). Meanwhile, the other two major desktop OSes are completely free. Upgrades too. The notion of paying for the basic software that makes your computer work is quickly becoming outmoded.
- viggity 13y ago
  Of course Apple can release cheap OSs, their machines cost twice as much as a PC. The total cost of ownership should be considered.
  - Karunamon 13y ago
    The upgrades are also completely gratis. And again with the "Twice as much" myth? Do I really need to link the article that shows the discount being offered on the new Pro machines with the workstation chipset? And you're also not counting the reduction in cost from the bundled crapware that comes on most every OOTB PC.
    - e40 13y ago
      The new Mac Pro is a joke. If you need to add more disks, you're adding an additional $1,500 to $2,500 for the external disk enclosure. That puts the base price, for 6 bays at $5,500! Now that is absurd.
      - slantyyz 13y ago
        And what's the benefit of a tiny chassis when you're still giving up more desk space for external hardware and a mess of cables? The Pro's impressive innovations in size and design, in my mind, were done for the sake of bragging rights than for practicality.
      - Karunamon 13y ago
        I can add external peripherals to any laptop/desktop and drive the price up as well. I'm talking out of the box.
bananas 13y ago
I hope this doesn't involve intrusive advertising or tracking. Firstly we're all on a slippery path with that one but secondly can you imagine the increased burden of family tech support? When relative X turns up with a $250 windows laptop and wants the ads removed, its going to be painful to explain. I imagine this will actually cause more harm than good to the brand.
- tunap 13y ago
  Ever since Vista, every time I run notepad Win calls home to Redmond to let them know I did it(non-intrusive, granted). There are ~ 40 ways Windows phones home to an MS IP when I open something or other these days. They call it 'metrics', I call it none of their business(look how they manipulate the data to say 'most users don't use start menu, anyway'...bwahahaha). TG for 3rd party firewalls, careful what you block...
  - bananas 13y ago
    Yes definitely aware of this. I ran wireshark on my workstation (MacBook) and had Windows 7 in a VBox virtual machine. The amount of network traffic it generates is insane. Prior to using the windows machine there was a little mDNS traffic and some SSDP stuff from my router/television and nothing else. Moment windows is online, thousands of packets everywhere. I didn't have time to reverse engineer what it was doing (as I was debugging an SSDP stack) but it's worrying simply from the complexity of filtering all of it.
- IE5point5 13y ago
  Windows 8 already has built in banner adverts
Touche 13y ago
That people are avoiding Windows 8+ is a side affect, it's not the problem. The problem is that developers have been (and are continuing to) fleeing Windows like it's the plague. The solution is to either radically make Windows more developer friendly or open source Windows. At the very least open source XP which you have no interest in supporting. Stick it on GitHub and accept pull requests.
- talmand 13y ago
  But I thought one of the bullet points of Win8 was that it was more developer friendly. When you say developer friendly, what do you mean by that? Seems to me you can develop more or less whatever you want in numerous different ways. Are you talking about developing on the core? As for open sourcing a previous version, there's always something like ReactOS, http://www.reactos.org/ http://www.reactos.org/.
  - Touche 13y ago
    Microsoft's idea of developer friendliness is always aimed at high-level. Windows is developer friendly as long as you use their tools/languages. Developers want to choose their own tools, so they should make that easier / more integrated.
    - talmand 13y ago
      I'm not a Windows developer, but I'm fairly certain there are options of tools/languages for Windows development that are not offered directly from Microsoft. Again, are we talking about developing applications to run on Windows or developing on the core?
      - Touche 13y ago
        Low-level applications/libraries. Things we take for granted on other OSes like alternative shells, alternative terminal emulators, language bindings for Win32 gui.
hrktb 13y ago
It would be interesting to see how "free" it will be. I'm not sure how OSX is accounted, but I suppose it's now defined as upgradable software coming with the hardware, the same way drivers are just software for a device already paid. Would Windows follow the same way of thinking and be free when bought OEM (as the article hints at) or have a really free tier that anyone could download for any hardware supported ? It would be nice to have Microsoft let go a lower/barebone tier of windows and focus on a premium version and additional services (unlimited skydrive integration with automatic backups for instance) for profits.
bluedino 13y ago
I could see the benefit being people who have to re-install or want to upgrade from XP/Vista can now do so for free - but wouldn't 9/10 of those people just buy Windows or pirate it anyway? For non-technical people, is losing Windows XP customers to Linux even an issue for Microsoft? They do have a good point about combating Chromebooks with a free version of Windows. Will it run efficiently on Chromebook level hardware? The Acer C720 is a Haswell Celeron with 4GB of RAM which should be plenty. I'd be concerned about the OS footprint on the SSD more than anything. 32GB vs 16GB would double the storage cost of the machine.
talmand 13y ago
Win8 was an attempt to convert from a desktop interface to a tablet interface. But the thing is, I'm still using a desktop. There's no way you can convince me to use a tablet interface on a desktop, especially when my monitor is not touch enabled. You can offer it to me for free and I would still politely turn you down. I already have Win7 on my current machine and it does everything that I require. Why exactly would I take a step back in interface design when I'm happy right now?
pwthornton 13y ago
I use Windows 8 every day at work. It's not that bad as some would have you believe, but I like it less than Windows 7, and every release should be more enjoyable and better. I consider Windows 7 to be the best version of Windows ever. It has a pretty clean windowing UI, it's stable and secure and generally just works. It's an OS that really appeals to MS's core audience. Why mess with it? I have my Windows 8 machine set to boot straight to desktop mode, and I have the start menu back; so it's pretty similar to using Windows 7. But every now and then you accidentally open up an app or file in Metro mode, and it's a really disorienting experience when one of my windows is in metro mode and the other is in desktop mode. The core issue of Windows 8 is that it tries to merge two pretty good UI concepts together, and in the process makes both worse. I like Metro as a tablet and phone UI. I like the Windows 7 UI for desktop computing. It's when you have to use Metro on a desktop or Windows 7 windowing on a tablet that it all goes to hell. I would suggest that MS end this, and make Windows 9 the best traditional Windows it can. Aim it at businesses and people who want to use the same OS they use at work at home. Focus on networking and cloud support (take OneDrive even further), improving multithreaded support (make it easier for developers to harness 4-12 and more core computers) and improving the file system. The UI concepts of Windows 7 are pretty good. You can iterate on the UI and add new features like Apple does with OS X, but there is no reason to get away from windowing for desktop computing. It's a conceptual model that works well, particularly for power users and work that benefits from multiple-monitors and multitasking. Microsoft should then spin off Metro into its own OS without the Windows name, while still using the Windows kernel. This is what Apple does with iOS, and it works very well. I use OS X at home, and think Mavericks is what MS should be aiming for, not Windows 8. Mavericks is the best desktop OS I've ever used, and, while I really like iOS, I wouldn't want to use iOS on my desktop computer.
chappi42 13y ago
Just updated Windows 8(#) to 8.1. What a bullshit (still)! It's not a question of money (free) but of simplifying the experience. It's a bloody mess! (#) Admittedly I didn't use Windows 8 often (mostly worked with Mountain Lion and Ubuntu 13.04/13.10 however I was a longtime Windows user before (Win98 to 7).
- chappi42 13y ago
  (just saw [this article](http://ignorethecode.net/blog/2014/03/02/windows_8_surface/ http://ignorethecode.net/blog/2014/03/02/windows_8_surface/) on the hn frontpage which describes very well what I meant with bullshit and mess. I kind of like the metro part but as I need the Desktop part... no 'love';)

40 points by robot_scream 13y ago

Piskvorrr 13y ago

Not sure this will help: IMNSHO market already perceives COTS computers as "costs $x, plus has Windows for free."

kenjackson 13y ago
the OEMs don't perceive it that way. Acer could have two SKUs. One with the free version at 199 and the non free version at 249. I think a lot will buy the 199 version.
- polshaw 13y ago
  Acer are already doing this with chromebooks and indeed, a lot are buying the 199 version.
  - Piskvorrr 13y ago
    A-ha! Now that makes sense: PCs are declining, and alternative OSes are eating a slice of this (traditionally MS-only) pie.
- dsr_ 13y ago
  Asus tried that with the EEE netbooks. http://blogs.computerworld.com/microsoft_strikes_back_at_linux_netbook_push http://blogs.computerworld.com/microsoft_strikes_back_at_lin... (Money talks. Microsoft has a lot of money.)
  - Karunamon 13y ago
    It could easily be argued that the EEE machines didn't work because they were too small, badly designed, and way way underpowered. I'd put the Chromebook up there as one of the first netbooks that were not horrible.
    - Touche 13y ago
      EEE did work. They were highly successful and created the netbook category.
      - Karunamon 13y ago
        Yet the model line was eventually switched to windows and then killed off entirely. Heck the netbook as a concept has been rather dormant before the Chromebook came along.
        Touche 13y ago
        The Ford Model T was also discontinued, was it a failure as well?

jmnicolas 13y ago

As I understand it, Microsoft needs to keep Windows everywhere so they can sell everything else (Office, Exchange, Server, SQL and Sharepoint). Why don't they give Windows for free ?

chollida1 13y ago
> Why don't they give Windows for free ? I think you know the reason, its because they make a shit load of money selling it. It's not at all clear that they would be better off giving it away for free.
- jmnicolas 13y ago
  Sure but they're loosing ground. If I was them I'd rather make less money now and stay relevant for the next 20 years than satisfy my immediate greed and disappear* in the next decade ... * disappear is too strong but my English being limited I don't have the word I need to convey what I mean.
  - venomsnake 13y ago
    Slide into obscurity is probably the phrase you seek.
- sirkneeland 13y ago
  At this point Windows is only a quarter of MS's revenue, and that is a figure that is sure to continue declining. The only question is whether it declines because they make it free, or because fewer people will be buying and using it.
  - JonoBB 13y ago
    "Only a quarter" is still $6bn per quarter (give or take). (Note, I haven't checked the 25% part, but their last quarter's revenue was ~$24bn).
Retric 13y ago
Microsoft could quickly sell a Linux version of Exchange or SharePoint even if it's just debugging a Wine version. However, by only selling Windows versions they make more money and increase the Windows ecosystem. Don't forget MS has enough cash on hand to handle huge market shifts so they can focus on maximizing short term profit.

collyw 13y ago

Yet again, both Microsoft and Apple following in the footsteps of Linux. Got to love the articles like with headlines like these: http://www.wired.com/business/2013/10/apple-ends-paid-oses/ http://www.wired.com/business/2013/10/apple-ends-paid-oses/

aroch 13y ago
This is an asinine comment. RHEL and SLED are enterprise-geared distros and paid products.
- Piskvorrr 13y ago
  True. On the other hand, MS has to fear XP replacements which are not Windows, yet will run on the same old(er) HW that XP did; e.g. LXLE, which is geared specifically towards this goal: http://lxle.net/ http://lxle.net/
  - slantyyz 13y ago
    The biggest XP replacements that are not Windows are iPads and Android tablets -- at least for the majority of users who are primarily emailers and web surfers. Not sure if a free version of Windows is going to stop the bleeding there.
    - Piskvorrr 13y ago
      That's a good point as well.
- collyw 13y ago
  They both have community editions (Fedora, openSuse) and I was under the impression you were paying for support rather than the product. Plus the article talks about a free version, which would imply that the relationship is similar.
  - aroch 13y ago

300bps 13y ago

"A free version of Windows 8.1? Those M$FT bastards are just trying to make more money!" -- 90% of responses that will show up here Anyway, Microsoft definitely needs to do something to eradicate the 29% of desktop users that are still using Windows XP which is a security disaster-waiting-to-happen. http://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0 http://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share....

okasaki 13y ago
I imagine a lot of machines running XP won't be able to run 8.1. IIRC even the minimum screen resolution of 1366x768 is above the popular old 1280x1024.
- slantyyz 13y ago
  I think it will still run if your res is smaller than the minimum. I installed 8 on a crusty old 2004 laptop, and it runs at roughly the same speed. MS did a surprisingly good job with Windows 8 in that regard.
- 300bps 13y ago
  I imagine a lot of machines running XP won't be able to run 8.1 Your imagination is completely wrong. Here are the minimum specifications: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/system-requirements http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/system-requirem... IIRC even the minimum screen resolution of 1366x768 Your memory is also completely wrong. Windows 8.1 does not have a minimum resolution of 1366x768. In fact, if you review the system requirements link above, you'll see that it works at less than 1024x768 but that certain features require 1024x768. Can you help me understand the purpose of your comment? I mean, obviously - you had no idea what you were talking about. You even knew it because you used weasel words like, "I imagine" or "IIRC". It makes me think you had some agenda to spread FUD about Windows 8.1 not working on older hardware.
  - okasaki 13y ago
    My memory isn't wrong. http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Windows-8.1/productID.288401200 http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Windows-... > Required memory 2GB > Required video card 1366 × 768 screen resolution; DirectX 9 graphics processor with WDDM driver

gegtik 13y ago

Why are we not linking source articles? I thought we were just hating on aggregators a second ago. This links to the Verge which repackaged the original ZDNet article: http://www.zdnet.com/microsofts-monetization-dilemma-bundlings-not-all-its-cracked-up-to-be-7000026852/ http://www.zdnet.com/microsofts-monetization-dilemma-bundlin...

philtar 13y ago

I called it. Here's what I said MSFT should do and it looks like they're on their way: Have a free version of windows that sends back analytics, displays ads every now and then etc. The normal version of windows that's for enterprise/government/the rest will get a significant price bump. I made the mistake of not putting my prediction on the internet before the free version was released. Now we wait for the price bump.

d23 13y ago
Uh, what? Did you think everyone would kiss your feet and praise you as a god if only you had put your random prediction somewhere on the internet?
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- philtar 13y ago
  Just a little bit of banter. Chill out.
corresation 13y ago
This is hardly a seer-like prediction. Instead it is an obvious consideration that recurs constantly. http://www.cnet.com.au/microsoft-eyes-making-desktop-apps-free-240058263.htm http://www.cnet.com.au/microsoft-eyes-making-desktop-apps-fr... That's from 2005.

reefoctopus 13y ago

Windows 8 is terrible. Free is still too expensive. It's Windows 7 with reduced functionality and an app store. I've been using Windows on my work laptops for the last 4 years because I use the adobe suite, and it's been easier. I've been stuck with Windows 8 on my most recent laptop, and yesterday I finally decided to switch to Ubuntu. Good riddance.

circa 13y ago
what functionality is lost in Windows 8.1 that 7 had?
- pearjuice 13y ago
  The traditional start menu. A proper desktop instead of a tablet-optimized interface.
  - slantyyz 13y ago
    If you're a keyboard centric user, the start menu's not a huge loss as one would think. I used to think it was a big deal until I realized I stopped using the Dock on OSX in favor of Spotlight to launch stuff. When I started using Win8 and learned that I basically could keep the same habits by hitting the Windows key and typing the first few characters of what I wanted to launch, I stopped caring about the start menu. I used to think the idea of a touchscreen laptop was stupid, but Win8 works for me, and my main machine is still a Macbook Pro. I have a Surface Pro that I use in place of my original iPad, and I think Win8 is quite good in tile mode or desktop mode. It's still hurting in the area of power management though.
    - bbradley406 13y ago
      While you can use the same keyboard habits, I find it much worse. The whole screen gets taken over by a rainbow colored mess of an interface, instead of a concise list in the corner.
  - philliphaydon 13y ago

shmerl 13y ago

MS starts fearing really free OSes at last. Interesting times. What's next, MS will open source Windows?

tunap 13y ago
A few tens of millions of XP users would sure appreciate that, April 8th is fast approaching. MS has extended MSSE updates for XP 'til 6/2015... can't wait to see what they pull out of where next month. PS: I could have sworn I saw XP workstations running on the ISS while watching NASA archives couple days ago. I do not know how recent the archive footage was...
- frik 13y ago
  NASA uses Windows XP on A31 & T61 Thinkpad notebooks: As of 2010, the Space Station was equipped with 68 ThinkPad A31 computers along with 32 new Lenovo ThinkPad T61p laptops plus a dedicated IP phone which also has limited video phone capabilities. Work incorporating those laptops into the station's LAN continued into June 2011. All laptops aboard the ISS are connected to the station's LAN via Wi-Fi and are connected to the ground at 3 Mbit/s up and 10 Mbit/s down, comparable to home DSL connection speeds. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ThinkPad#Use_in_space http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ThinkPad#Use_in_space
  - shmerl 13y ago
    Didn't they get rid of it and started using Linux?

AutoCorrect 13y ago

Windows 8.1, so bad they're giving it away for free. Seriously, doesn't this fall under monopoly no-nos?

nsxwolf 13y ago
Is there another commercial operating system that isn't free?
- frik 13y ago
  various UNIX (Solaris, etc.), QNX, z/OS, etc. (and OS like iOS/MacOS on non-Apple hardware)

forgotAgain 13y ago

I have to admit, I dismissed the Chromebook when it was first introduced. It seems at this point that it's really been a market changer.

Kurtz79 13y ago
I believe that Apple aggressive pricing of the last operating systems (up to the current "free") had much more influence on the decision, together with Ubuntu progress in terms of usability. Edit: Probably is all off these put together, nowadays most users simply do not expect to pay for an updated OS.
newleaf 13y ago
It's the classic innovator's dilemma. ChromeOS was worse/cheaper than the existing options, but good enough for some people/uses.
e40 13y ago
I got a Chromebook for my teenager and one for myself at work for note taking, etc. It's been a win for the kid. At work, it's been a pain in the ass. Google spreadsheets is pretty bad and can't handle many of the spreadsheets I need to deal with on a regular basis. And, gotomeeting doesn't work on the Chromebook, even though they have a new web-based version. Printing is the Achilles heel, however there are new printers out that have Cloud Print built in. However, a agree, it is a game changer.

Karunamon 13y ago

It sounds a like this is going to be a gimped money-grab like "Windows 7 Starter edition" (where you can't even change the wallpaper). Meanwhile, the other two major desktop OSes are completely free. Upgrades too. The notion of paying for the basic software that makes your computer work is quickly becoming outmoded.

viggity 13y ago
Of course Apple can release cheap OSs, their machines cost twice as much as a PC. The total cost of ownership should be considered.
- Karunamon 13y ago
  The upgrades are also completely gratis. And again with the "Twice as much" myth? Do I really need to link the article that shows the discount being offered on the new Pro machines with the workstation chipset? And you're also not counting the reduction in cost from the bundled crapware that comes on most every OOTB PC.
  - e40 13y ago
    The new Mac Pro is a joke. If you need to add more disks, you're adding an additional $1,500 to $2,500 for the external disk enclosure. That puts the base price, for 6 bays at $5,500! Now that is absurd.
    - slantyyz 13y ago
      And what's the benefit of a tiny chassis when you're still giving up more desk space for external hardware and a mess of cables? The Pro's impressive innovations in size and design, in my mind, were done for the sake of bragging rights than for practicality.
    - Karunamon 13y ago
      I can add external peripherals to any laptop/desktop and drive the price up as well. I'm talking out of the box.

bananas 13y ago

I hope this doesn't involve intrusive advertising or tracking. Firstly we're all on a slippery path with that one but secondly can you imagine the increased burden of family tech support? When relative X turns up with a $250 windows laptop and wants the ads removed, its going to be painful to explain. I imagine this will actually cause more harm than good to the brand.

tunap 13y ago
Ever since Vista, every time I run notepad Win calls home to Redmond to let them know I did it(non-intrusive, granted). There are ~ 40 ways Windows phones home to an MS IP when I open something or other these days. They call it 'metrics', I call it none of their business(look how they manipulate the data to say 'most users don't use start menu, anyway'...bwahahaha). TG for 3rd party firewalls, careful what you block...
- bananas 13y ago
  Yes definitely aware of this. I ran wireshark on my workstation (MacBook) and had Windows 7 in a VBox virtual machine. The amount of network traffic it generates is insane. Prior to using the windows machine there was a little mDNS traffic and some SSDP stuff from my router/television and nothing else. Moment windows is online, thousands of packets everywhere. I didn't have time to reverse engineer what it was doing (as I was debugging an SSDP stack) but it's worrying simply from the complexity of filtering all of it.
IE5point5 13y ago
Windows 8 already has built in banner adverts

Touche 13y ago

That people are avoiding Windows 8+ is a side affect, it's not the problem. The problem is that developers have been (and are continuing to) fleeing Windows like it's the plague. The solution is to either radically make Windows more developer friendly or open source Windows. At the very least open source XP which you have no interest in supporting. Stick it on GitHub and accept pull requests.

talmand 13y ago
But I thought one of the bullet points of Win8 was that it was more developer friendly. When you say developer friendly, what do you mean by that? Seems to me you can develop more or less whatever you want in numerous different ways. Are you talking about developing on the core? As for open sourcing a previous version, there's always something like ReactOS, http://www.reactos.org/ http://www.reactos.org/.
- Touche 13y ago
  Microsoft's idea of developer friendliness is always aimed at high-level. Windows is developer friendly as long as you use their tools/languages. Developers want to choose their own tools, so they should make that easier / more integrated.
  - talmand 13y ago
    I'm not a Windows developer, but I'm fairly certain there are options of tools/languages for Windows development that are not offered directly from Microsoft. Again, are we talking about developing applications to run on Windows or developing on the core?
    - Touche 13y ago
      Low-level applications/libraries. Things we take for granted on other OSes like alternative shells, alternative terminal emulators, language bindings for Win32 gui.

hrktb 13y ago

It would be interesting to see how "free" it will be. I'm not sure how OSX is accounted, but I suppose it's now defined as upgradable software coming with the hardware, the same way drivers are just software for a device already paid. Would Windows follow the same way of thinking and be free when bought OEM (as the article hints at) or have a really free tier that anyone could download for any hardware supported ? It would be nice to have Microsoft let go a lower/barebone tier of windows and focus on a premium version and additional services (unlimited skydrive integration with automatic backups for instance) for profits.

bluedino 13y ago

I could see the benefit being people who have to re-install or want to upgrade from XP/Vista can now do so for free - but wouldn't 9/10 of those people just buy Windows or pirate it anyway? For non-technical people, is losing Windows XP customers to Linux even an issue for Microsoft? They do have a good point about combating Chromebooks with a free version of Windows. Will it run efficiently on Chromebook level hardware? The Acer C720 is a Haswell Celeron with 4GB of RAM which should be plenty. I'd be concerned about the OS footprint on the SSD more than anything. 32GB vs 16GB would double the storage cost of the machine.

talmand 13y ago

Win8 was an attempt to convert from a desktop interface to a tablet interface. But the thing is, I'm still using a desktop. There's no way you can convince me to use a tablet interface on a desktop, especially when my monitor is not touch enabled. You can offer it to me for free and I would still politely turn you down. I already have Win7 on my current machine and it does everything that I require. Why exactly would I take a step back in interface design when I'm happy right now?

pwthornton 13y ago

I use Windows 8 every day at work. It's not that bad as some would have you believe, but I like it less than Windows 7, and every release should be more enjoyable and better. I consider Windows 7 to be the best version of Windows ever. It has a pretty clean windowing UI, it's stable and secure and generally just works. It's an OS that really appeals to MS's core audience. Why mess with it? I have my Windows 8 machine set to boot straight to desktop mode, and I have the start menu back; so it's pretty similar to using Windows 7. But every now and then you accidentally open up an app or file in Metro mode, and it's a really disorienting experience when one of my windows is in metro mode and the other is in desktop mode. The core issue of Windows 8 is that it tries to merge two pretty good UI concepts together, and in the process makes both worse. I like Metro as a tablet and phone UI. I like the Windows 7 UI for desktop computing. It's when you have to use Metro on a desktop or Windows 7 windowing on a tablet that it all goes to hell. I would suggest that MS end this, and make Windows 9 the best traditional Windows it can. Aim it at businesses and people who want to use the same OS they use at work at home. Focus on networking and cloud support (take OneDrive even further), improving multithreaded support (make it easier for developers to harness 4-12 and more core computers) and improving the file system. The UI concepts of Windows 7 are pretty good. You can iterate on the UI and add new features like Apple does with OS X, but there is no reason to get away from windowing for desktop computing. It's a conceptual model that works well, particularly for power users and work that benefits from multiple-monitors and multitasking. Microsoft should then spin off Metro into its own OS without the Windows name, while still using the Windows kernel. This is what Apple does with iOS, and it works very well. I use OS X at home, and think Mavericks is what MS should be aiming for, not Windows 8. Mavericks is the best desktop OS I've ever used, and, while I really like iOS, I wouldn't want to use iOS on my desktop computer.

chappi42 13y ago

Just updated Windows 8(#) to 8.1. What a bullshit (still)! It's not a question of money (free) but of simplifying the experience. It's a bloody mess! (#) Admittedly I didn't use Windows 8 often (mostly worked with Mountain Lion and Ubuntu 13.04/13.10 however I was a longtime Windows user before (Win98 to 7).

chappi42 13y ago
(just saw [this article](http://ignorethecode.net/blog/2014/03/02/windows_8_surface/ http://ignorethecode.net/blog/2014/03/02/windows_8_surface/) on the hn frontpage which describes very well what I meant with bullshit and mess. I kind of like the metro part but as I need the Desktop part... no 'love';)