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Should the owner Mark Karpeles go to jail? On one hand, there may be a chilling effect if Karpeles is sent to jail, because fewer companies may be willing to p

Should the owner Mark Karpeles go to jail? On one hand, there may be a chilling effect if Karpeles is sent to jail, because fewer companies may be willing to participate in an area where the penalty for failure is time behind bars. On the other hand, it feels very inequitable and unjust that Karpeles made millions off of MtGox, lost our money and then is free to enjoy life. But that's a vengeful mindset, and it seems counterproductive. Is it really just a bad situation with no recourse? Karpeles walks, MtGox shuts down, and everyone's money is gone. Poof. The most persuasive argument for jailtime seems to be that if he's not penalized, then others may attempt to orchestrate similar disasters. Bitcoin has a very, very small chance at becoming the next gold standard, but it's a chance nonetheless. Therefore whoever is willing to flaunt the law and steal >5% of all bitcoins that will ever be created has a very, very small chance at becoming extremely powerful in the future, and wealthy in the short term. I don't know. There's probably nothing to be done, and taking away years of a person's life out of a sense of retribution probably isn't the best answer. What does everyone think?

hanswesterbeek 13y ago
After this, you still say "Bitcoin may be the next gold standard"?
- sillysaurus3 13y ago
  My observation is simply that the future is unknown, and therefore a greedy actor would benefit greatly from stealing >5% of a currency. The most straightforward way to do this is to set up a popular exchange and orchestrate a disaster which is secretly a theft. Since there's no way to prove it, and since bitcoin wallets can lay dormant for decades, there's at least some incentive to do this. Should jailtime be on the table for gross negligence? I'm just interested in everyone's thoughts on the matter.
- Tenoke 13y ago
  Personally, this fiasco hasn't affected in the slightest my beliefs about the protocol. Hell, if anything it might've been a small point in favour of decentralization.
  - hanswesterbeek 13y ago
    That sounds like the reasoning of the gun-lobby. When bad things happen to do with guns, they tell us we need more guns.
    - lukifer 13y ago
      I would've preferred to let the banks fail in 2008, short-term economic consequences be damned. That experiment is now playing out in the unregulated crypto-economy. (I've got my popcorn.)
- ivanca 13y ago
  You think gold being stolen reduces its value? If not, why do you think it would happen here?
  - Alterlife 13y ago
    Gold is a physical asset. People understand physical security. Gold can't be lost due to a hard drive crash, and it cannot be stolen over a network. More importantly, I believe a majority of people (myself among the number) do not understand bitcoins were stolen from mtgox.
    - ivanca 13y ago
      Dollars (and Euros) stopped being a gold-based currency a long time ago: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_money http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_money Besides, "understanding" is very slippery verb in this context, what do you understand about gold? You know where it all is? You know who is in charge of protecting it and who is the owner? You know its location? You know who is digging for it? You know where are they digging? I don't clearly see what "understanding" you have about it.
      - deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
      - Alterlife 13y ago
        There's a disconnect between what I think of as Gold investment and what you're talking about... Perhaps you're referring to Gold stocks, or notes or something? What I'm talking about: In India, my family buys a small amount of Gold every 3 months or so. Gold coins, each a few grams in weight. I know exactly where they are -- I have a safe deposit locker at my bank, and some of them have been converted into jewelry for my wife.
        JoeAltmaier 13y ago
        Cool! Somebody like you was at work 160 years ago in California - recently 6 cans of gold were discovered buried under an ancient oak tree after a rain.
JumpCrisscross 13y ago
At least in the United States, an officer or director's right to stupidity is enshrined in law. But fraud isn't. If Karpeles knew and understood that there was a problem, there should be criminal charges. Further, there may be grounds for Mt. Gox and its investors to pursue Karpeles on civil grounds. But this is philosophical. The operation of an unlicensed, dollar-based financial institution will attract the sharks. "Move fast and break [laws]" sometimes works, but only if you win.
whyenot 13y ago
I think it's far to early to have a meaningful discussion about this. There are so many rumors and poorly sourced "facts" floating around right now. We have almost no concrete information about what actually happened at Mt.Gox and what role Karpeles may have played.

hanswesterbeek 13y ago

After this, you still say "Bitcoin may be the next gold standard"?

sillysaurus3 13y ago
My observation is simply that the future is unknown, and therefore a greedy actor would benefit greatly from stealing >5% of a currency. The most straightforward way to do this is to set up a popular exchange and orchestrate a disaster which is secretly a theft. Since there's no way to prove it, and since bitcoin wallets can lay dormant for decades, there's at least some incentive to do this. Should jailtime be on the table for gross negligence? I'm just interested in everyone's thoughts on the matter.
Tenoke 13y ago
Personally, this fiasco hasn't affected in the slightest my beliefs about the protocol. Hell, if anything it might've been a small point in favour of decentralization.
- hanswesterbeek 13y ago
  That sounds like the reasoning of the gun-lobby. When bad things happen to do with guns, they tell us we need more guns.
  - lukifer 13y ago
    I would've preferred to let the banks fail in 2008, short-term economic consequences be damned. That experiment is now playing out in the unregulated crypto-economy. (I've got my popcorn.)
ivanca 13y ago
You think gold being stolen reduces its value? If not, why do you think it would happen here?
- Alterlife 13y ago
  Gold is a physical asset. People understand physical security. Gold can't be lost due to a hard drive crash, and it cannot be stolen over a network. More importantly, I believe a majority of people (myself among the number) do not understand bitcoins were stolen from mtgox.
  - ivanca 13y ago
    Dollars (and Euros) stopped being a gold-based currency a long time ago: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_money http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_money Besides, "understanding" is very slippery verb in this context, what do you understand about gold? You know where it all is? You know who is in charge of protecting it and who is the owner? You know its location? You know who is digging for it? You know where are they digging? I don't clearly see what "understanding" you have about it.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
    - Alterlife 13y ago
      There's a disconnect between what I think of as Gold investment and what you're talking about... Perhaps you're referring to Gold stocks, or notes or something? What I'm talking about: In India, my family buys a small amount of Gold every 3 months or so. Gold coins, each a few grams in weight. I know exactly where they are -- I have a safe deposit locker at my bank, and some of them have been converted into jewelry for my wife.
      - JoeAltmaier 13y ago
        Cool! Somebody like you was at work 160 years ago in California - recently 6 cans of gold were discovered buried under an ancient oak tree after a rain.

JumpCrisscross 13y ago

At least in the United States, an officer or director's right to stupidity is enshrined in law. But fraud isn't. If Karpeles knew and understood that there was a problem, there should be criminal charges. Further, there may be grounds for Mt. Gox and its investors to pursue Karpeles on civil grounds. But this is philosophical. The operation of an unlicensed, dollar-based financial institution will attract the sharks. "Move fast and break [laws]" sometimes works, but only if you win.

whyenot 13y ago

I think it's far to early to have a meaningful discussion about this. There are so many rumors and poorly sourced "facts" floating around right now. We have almost no concrete information about what actually happened at Mt.Gox and what role Karpeles may have played.