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At a certain point people who are worried about the 'much else' part have to take personal responsibility for their paranoia. Apple cannot prove they aren't rea

by jsz0 13y ago

At a certain point people who are worried about the 'much else' part have to take personal responsibility for their paranoia. Apple cannot prove they aren't reading your iMessages. Maybe they are beaming them into deep space because they want to help aliens come get you. Who knows? It's hard to disprove. Anyone who reaches that level of paranoia should not be using these services.

icebraining 13y ago
Apple cannot prove they aren't reading your iMessages. Sure they could. They could change the protocol and UI so that the users could verify and pin keys, and they could publish the iMessage source[1] to allow people to check it and compile it themselves. Whether they should be expected to do these things is a different issue, but they could. [1] not necessarily under a liberal license - for example, PGP was proprietary but allowed people to download its sources
- bruceboughton 13y ago
  They could publish the source, but how do you know that source is running on your iPhone?
  - icebraining 13y ago
    Compile it yourself or get some trusted party to it for you, and sideload it. "But you can't sideload iOS apps!" Well, then we're back to what Apple could do.
    - bruceboughton 13y ago
      Which was my point...
      - icebraining 13y ago
        What was your point? All I said was that they could prove it. If allowing sideloading is required, so what?
        bruceboughton 13y ago
        In reply to: Apple cannot prove they aren't reading your iMessages. You said: Sure they could. They could change the protocol and UI so that the users could verify and pin keys, and they could publish the iMessage source[1] to allow people to check it and compile it themselves. My point is that publishing the source is not enough since you cannot verify that is the source running on your iPhone. Even if we concede that Apple could let you sideload your own compiled binary (which is not the case today), you still couldn't prove it since you couldn't know that the iPhone is running your binary and not a backdoored binary in the OS. None of which is to say that Apple should have to prove any of this. If you cannot trust your phone vendor, then you cannot use any function of that phone, be it purportedly-secure messaging or location services or even the web browser.

by jsz0 13y ago

icebraining 13y ago

Apple cannot prove they aren't reading your iMessages. Sure they could. They could change the protocol and UI so that the users could verify and pin keys, and they could publish the iMessage source[1] to allow people to check it and compile it themselves. Whether they should be expected to do these things is a different issue, but they could. [1] not necessarily under a liberal license - for example, PGP was proprietary but allowed people to download its sources

bruceboughton 13y ago
They could publish the source, but how do you know that source is running on your iPhone?
- icebraining 13y ago
  Compile it yourself or get some trusted party to it for you, and sideload it. "But you can't sideload iOS apps!" Well, then we're back to what Apple could do.
  - bruceboughton 13y ago
    Which was my point...
    - icebraining 13y ago
      What was your point? All I said was that they could prove it. If allowing sideloading is required, so what?
      - bruceboughton 13y ago
        In reply to: Apple cannot prove they aren't reading your iMessages. You said: Sure they could. They could change the protocol and UI so that the users could verify and pin keys, and they could publish the iMessage source[1] to allow people to check it and compile it themselves. My point is that publishing the source is not enough since you cannot verify that is the source running on your iPhone. Even if we concede that Apple could let you sideload your own compiled binary (which is not the case today), you still couldn't prove it since you couldn't know that the iPhone is running your binary and not a backdoored binary in the OS. None of which is to say that Apple should have to prove any of this. If you cannot trust your phone vendor, then you cannot use any function of that phone, be it purportedly-secure messaging or location services or even the web browser.