3 ms·

I honestly hate when stats are distorted. The "almost half of gamers are female" stat is true, but the majority of female gamers favor puzzles and extremely cas

by xarien 13y ago

I honestly hate when stats are distorted. The "almost half of gamers are female" stat is true, but the majority of female gamers favor puzzles and extremely casual games. AAA title customers are still strongly dominated by male audiences and thus, the market will cater towards that demographic. There's really nothing wrong with this. It's about as sexist as the male section in my local Macy's being 1/10 the total size of the store.

je_bailey 13y ago
You're making some broad assumptions here. The fact that 'AAA' titles are dominated males is because the 'AAA' titles are made by males for males with no compelling reason for many female gamers to play them.
- Perdition 13y ago
  Are you arguing that women are so limited in imagination that they can't enjoy works of fiction in which the protagonist is a different gender? Anyone who argued that men couldn't enjoy The Hunger Games by Suzanne Collins because the protagonist is a women would be laughed at.
  - egypturnash 13y ago
    It's not that we can't enjoy works starring a different gender. It's that in video games, we are pretty much given no other option. Look at your collection, pick up all the games that force you into a particular character's shoes. How many of them are about being a guy? How many are about being a girl? You'll probably be able to count the latter on the fingers of one hand. Also did you know that "we wanted to make a game starring a woman and a bunch of publishers turned us down because only guys buy games and they never want to be ladies" is a common refrain from AAA-level developers who want to try to fix this imbalance?
    - Perdition 13y ago
      >It's not that we can't enjoy works starring a different gender. It's that in video games, we are pretty much given no other option. Look at your collection, pick up all the games that force you into a particular character's shoes. How many of them are about being a guy? How many are about being a girl? You'll probably be able to count the latter on the fingers of one hand. Again, how does that stop women enjoying games? Most games which force a character I don't identify with the character at all because being of the same gender is no grounds for identification. >Also did you know that "we wanted to make a game starring a woman and a bunch of publishers turned us down because only guys buy games and they never want to be ladies" is a common refrain from AAA-level developers who want to try to fix this imbalance? I think that comment is true for most teen males due to the kneejerk machismo that still exists at that age, but most men grow out of it. Also, if that comment is true for men in general what compelling argument would you offer to publishers to get them to not focus on the desires of their primary customers? If the publisher can sell HyperViolent MurderSim 2014 to the men and DressUp Dollies 2014 to the women they are still maximising their market.
      - egypturnash 13y ago
        How does this stop women enjoying games? See this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7317484 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7317484
        Perdition 13y ago
        >It's not pretending to be the opposite sex for one game that's the problem. It's pretending to be the opposite sex for almost EVERY game. It's pretty fucking wearying. Sorry, that seems like a personal hang-up to me. For most games I don't pretend to be the character, I play the game. The character is usually too discordant with my own self-image for identification or is just a mute pawn (eg Gordon Freeman/Chell). For games like decent RPGs where I can actually make the character I want I regularly play female characters. And seeking role models in games seems just bizarre to me. Lots of game characters are "bad ass" but exceedingly few are decent role models (Lara Croft is an awful person for damaging archaeological evidence and stealing other cultures relics).
- vinceguidry 13y ago
  Markets for stuff like video games don't just spring up out of nowhere. They have to be developed. Someone has to develop them. Did you read that article about the making of the market for diamond solitaire engagement rings by DeBeers? That's how you make a market, you convince people to want something that they didn't before want. Someone has to figure out how to market games for females. If you think that's easy, try doing it yourself. There aren't any formulas, nothing that works reliably. Someone could make a good argument that games are made for guys simply because male tastes are much simpler than females'.
  - bsder 13y ago
    > Someone could make a good argument that games are made for guys simply because male tastes are much simpler than females'. Someone could also make a good argument that games are made for guys because it's one of the few good ways to separate males from their money while there are lots of alternatives to separate women from their money.
skymt 13y ago
I read a blog post today that has a different perspective on this issue: http://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2014/02/women-play-where-were-welcomed.html http://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2014/02/women-play-where-were-welco...
pharrington 13y ago
What are you trying to clarify by distinguishing between AAA titles and "puzzle/casual" titles?
- GhotiFish 13y ago
  the author is talking about a AAA title.
egypturnash 13y ago
Hi! I'm a female video gamer. I grew up playing video games. I have played, and still play, a lot of games involving shooting things, punching and kicking things, and colorful explosions. I got hooked on the medium with Williams' "Defender". I don't play FPSs because they are, with very few exceptions, coded as Games For Guys. I've had a great time playing Portal, System Shock 2, Antichamber, and a few other first person puzzle shoot things, because they are either genderless, or are strongly feminine. (You would destroy me in a high-speed deathmatch because my 'put cursor on dude' skills are minimal - largely because almost every single 'put cursor on dude' game requires me to inhabit the grey/brown shoes of Mancho McGruntsalot, so I really don't feel like playing them.) I avoid most AAA games for similar reasons. They are all clubhouses with a "NO GURLS ALLOUED" sign hung out front. I played the hell out of Skyrim and Saint's Row 3/4 in no small part because I could make female avatars and the game would happily let me be that. (For that matter, I basically quit buying the 3D GTA games when they stopped having any 'play as another model' codes that I could input to force the game to acknowledge my gender. Even if it did sometimes result in a cutscene where a lady model stood with her legs wide open, talking in a male voice, and dangling a gun in front of her crotch obscenely.) I have a bunch of lady friends who have spent tons of time playing MMORPGs. I haven't, myself, because I know I'd fall into that hole and never come out - but again: easy access to female avatars right there in the stock game, no hassle, hey maybe we'll welcome women.
- blah32497 13y ago
  I don't really play a lot of videogames anymore, but I have a lot of trouble empathizing with this. When the gender roles are reversed it seems silly to me. "most every single 'put cursor on dude' game requires me to inhabit the grey/brown shoes of Mancho McGruntsalot, so I really don't feel like playing them" As a male, I don't think I've ever had an issue following a feminine video game character. In fact, I've never felt compelled to paused and think that role-playing a female character was weird (say in Tomb Raider, or No One Lives Forever, or any other of the relatively few female centric games). Can you elaborate on why is this a hang-up for you when it comes to playing a man?
  - egypturnash 13y ago

by xarien 13y ago

je_bailey 13y ago

You're making some broad assumptions here. The fact that 'AAA' titles are dominated males is because the 'AAA' titles are made by males for males with no compelling reason for many female gamers to play them.

Perdition 13y ago
Are you arguing that women are so limited in imagination that they can't enjoy works of fiction in which the protagonist is a different gender? Anyone who argued that men couldn't enjoy The Hunger Games by Suzanne Collins because the protagonist is a women would be laughed at.
- egypturnash 13y ago
  It's not that we can't enjoy works starring a different gender. It's that in video games, we are pretty much given no other option. Look at your collection, pick up all the games that force you into a particular character's shoes. How many of them are about being a guy? How many are about being a girl? You'll probably be able to count the latter on the fingers of one hand. Also did you know that "we wanted to make a game starring a woman and a bunch of publishers turned us down because only guys buy games and they never want to be ladies" is a common refrain from AAA-level developers who want to try to fix this imbalance?
  - Perdition 13y ago
    >It's not that we can't enjoy works starring a different gender. It's that in video games, we are pretty much given no other option. Look at your collection, pick up all the games that force you into a particular character's shoes. How many of them are about being a guy? How many are about being a girl? You'll probably be able to count the latter on the fingers of one hand. Again, how does that stop women enjoying games? Most games which force a character I don't identify with the character at all because being of the same gender is no grounds for identification. >Also did you know that "we wanted to make a game starring a woman and a bunch of publishers turned us down because only guys buy games and they never want to be ladies" is a common refrain from AAA-level developers who want to try to fix this imbalance? I think that comment is true for most teen males due to the kneejerk machismo that still exists at that age, but most men grow out of it. Also, if that comment is true for men in general what compelling argument would you offer to publishers to get them to not focus on the desires of their primary customers? If the publisher can sell HyperViolent MurderSim 2014 to the men and DressUp Dollies 2014 to the women they are still maximising their market.
    - egypturnash 13y ago
      How does this stop women enjoying games? See this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7317484 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7317484
      - Perdition 13y ago
        >It's not pretending to be the opposite sex for one game that's the problem. It's pretending to be the opposite sex for almost EVERY game. It's pretty fucking wearying. Sorry, that seems like a personal hang-up to me. For most games I don't pretend to be the character, I play the game. The character is usually too discordant with my own self-image for identification or is just a mute pawn (eg Gordon Freeman/Chell). For games like decent RPGs where I can actually make the character I want I regularly play female characters. And seeking role models in games seems just bizarre to me. Lots of game characters are "bad ass" but exceedingly few are decent role models (Lara Croft is an awful person for damaging archaeological evidence and stealing other cultures relics).
vinceguidry 13y ago
Markets for stuff like video games don't just spring up out of nowhere. They have to be developed. Someone has to develop them. Did you read that article about the making of the market for diamond solitaire engagement rings by DeBeers? That's how you make a market, you convince people to want something that they didn't before want. Someone has to figure out how to market games for females. If you think that's easy, try doing it yourself. There aren't any formulas, nothing that works reliably. Someone could make a good argument that games are made for guys simply because male tastes are much simpler than females'.
- bsder 13y ago
  > Someone could make a good argument that games are made for guys simply because male tastes are much simpler than females'. Someone could also make a good argument that games are made for guys because it's one of the few good ways to separate males from their money while there are lots of alternatives to separate women from their money.

skymt 13y ago

I read a blog post today that has a different perspective on this issue: http://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2014/02/women-play-where-were-welcomed.html http://nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2014/02/women-play-where-were-welco...

pharrington 13y ago

What are you trying to clarify by distinguishing between AAA titles and "puzzle/casual" titles?

GhotiFish 13y ago
the author is talking about a AAA title.

egypturnash 13y ago

Hi! I'm a female video gamer. I grew up playing video games. I have played, and still play, a lot of games involving shooting things, punching and kicking things, and colorful explosions. I got hooked on the medium with Williams' "Defender". I don't play FPSs because they are, with very few exceptions, coded as Games For Guys. I've had a great time playing Portal, System Shock 2, Antichamber, and a few other first person puzzle shoot things, because they are either genderless, or are strongly feminine. (You would destroy me in a high-speed deathmatch because my 'put cursor on dude' skills are minimal - largely because almost every single 'put cursor on dude' game requires me to inhabit the grey/brown shoes of Mancho McGruntsalot, so I really don't feel like playing them.) I avoid most AAA games for similar reasons. They are all clubhouses with a "NO GURLS ALLOUED" sign hung out front. I played the hell out of Skyrim and Saint's Row 3/4 in no small part because I could make female avatars and the game would happily let me be that. (For that matter, I basically quit buying the 3D GTA games when they stopped having any 'play as another model' codes that I could input to force the game to acknowledge my gender. Even if it did sometimes result in a cutscene where a lady model stood with her legs wide open, talking in a male voice, and dangling a gun in front of her crotch obscenely.) I have a bunch of lady friends who have spent tons of time playing MMORPGs. I haven't, myself, because I know I'd fall into that hole and never come out - but again: easy access to female avatars right there in the stock game, no hassle, hey maybe we'll welcome women.

blah32497 13y ago
I don't really play a lot of videogames anymore, but I have a lot of trouble empathizing with this. When the gender roles are reversed it seems silly to me. "most every single 'put cursor on dude' game requires me to inhabit the grey/brown shoes of Mancho McGruntsalot, so I really don't feel like playing them" As a male, I don't think I've ever had an issue following a feminine video game character. In fact, I've never felt compelled to paused and think that role-playing a female character was weird (say in Tomb Raider, or No One Lives Forever, or any other of the relatively few female centric games). Can you elaborate on why is this a hang-up for you when it comes to playing a man?
- egypturnash 13y ago