4 ms·

Well, I can't really know my grandparents' state of mind. But my grandfather drove trucks locally, and my grandmother worked in a supermarket. Try to imagine af

by benched 13y ago

Well, I can't really know my grandparents' state of mind. But my grandfather drove trucks locally, and my grandmother worked in a supermarket. Try to imagine affording a single family house and two cars with jobs like that today. They always seemed like they enjoyed their jobs. My grandfather kept working long after retirement age. I never heard them complain about their jobs or give any indication they didn't like them. If 99% of people are worse off than I am, that seems like an extremely serious problem to me. Hence my question.

analyst74 13y ago
It is a state of mind, at least in part. Older generation, especially those through the hardsihps of war, are happy to live, period. Jobs we consider shitty today (like cashier or truck driver) are much better than infantry man in war torn Europe. Today's people are much more spoiled, not just in consumerism, but the idea of being above manual labour, freedom to chase your unprofitable goal, not settle until you found a dream job are all quite new.
tedsanders 13y ago
Thanks for your reply. Maybe it has to do with WWII. After WWII, the US was the only great economic power left undamaged. Our industries supplied the world, and they boomed. That wealth trickled down to many people in the US. Now, decades after WWII, other countries around the world have developed their own industry, driving down global prices and wages. As a result, perhaps the average global worker is better off, but the average US worker is worse off. This may partly explain why median wages have been stagnant in the US since 1974ish. I wonder how much of comfort is attitude or perspective. I also happen to be a single man living in a high-rent city (Palo Alto). My income is about $30,000. Rent is my largest expense by far, but overall I feel quite comfortable. I manage to contribute $5k each January to my Roth IRA. No doubt if I had children or medical expenses, my $30,000 income would be strained, but right now I feel relatively comfortable on it. My needs are met.
- eqdw 13y ago
  > I wonder how much of comfort is attitude or perspective. I also happen to be a single man living in a high-rent city (Palo Alto). My income is about $30,000. I live in a shitty small apartment in a run down part of SF, and my annual rent is $20,000. Either you're talking net income, PA is way cheaper than I've been led to believe, or there's some factor I'm missing
  - tedsanders 13y ago
    My rent is about $12,000 a year. I guess the missing factor is that Palo Alto is cheaper than San Francisco (though certainly not cheap! :D).
sliverstorm 13y ago
Think about where your grandfather & grandmother lived, and what the place was like when they lived there. Silicon Valley, for example, was pretty cheap before the tech booms. Speaking to people who moved there in the late 70's and early 80's, there were still orchards and fields everywhere. What I'm getting at is it's easy to get by on simple jobs like that when you live in Nowhere, WY. Then, later, when the town booms people are incredulous about how you were ever able to afford living there.
- benched 13y ago
  They lived in a small house 6 miles from downtown Boston, in a nice middle class residential neighborhood. I couldn't afford to buy that house now. This is the sort of thing that suggests to me a big picture issue.
  - sliverstorm 13y ago
    I couldn't afford to buy that house now That's exactly my point though, then & now are almost certainly not apples to apples, and "Well I couldn't afford their house today" is exactly the thing that I am saying is a mistake to think.

by benched 13y ago

analyst74 13y ago

It is a state of mind, at least in part. Older generation, especially those through the hardsihps of war, are happy to live, period. Jobs we consider shitty today (like cashier or truck driver) are much better than infantry man in war torn Europe. Today's people are much more spoiled, not just in consumerism, but the idea of being above manual labour, freedom to chase your unprofitable goal, not settle until you found a dream job are all quite new.

tedsanders 13y ago

Thanks for your reply. Maybe it has to do with WWII. After WWII, the US was the only great economic power left undamaged. Our industries supplied the world, and they boomed. That wealth trickled down to many people in the US. Now, decades after WWII, other countries around the world have developed their own industry, driving down global prices and wages. As a result, perhaps the average global worker is better off, but the average US worker is worse off. This may partly explain why median wages have been stagnant in the US since 1974ish. I wonder how much of comfort is attitude or perspective. I also happen to be a single man living in a high-rent city (Palo Alto). My income is about $30,000. Rent is my largest expense by far, but overall I feel quite comfortable. I manage to contribute $5k each January to my Roth IRA. No doubt if I had children or medical expenses, my $30,000 income would be strained, but right now I feel relatively comfortable on it. My needs are met.

eqdw 13y ago
> I wonder how much of comfort is attitude or perspective. I also happen to be a single man living in a high-rent city (Palo Alto). My income is about $30,000. I live in a shitty small apartment in a run down part of SF, and my annual rent is $20,000. Either you're talking net income, PA is way cheaper than I've been led to believe, or there's some factor I'm missing
- tedsanders 13y ago
  My rent is about $12,000 a year. I guess the missing factor is that Palo Alto is cheaper than San Francisco (though certainly not cheap! :D).

sliverstorm 13y ago

Think about where your grandfather & grandmother lived, and what the place was like when they lived there. Silicon Valley, for example, was pretty cheap before the tech booms. Speaking to people who moved there in the late 70's and early 80's, there were still orchards and fields everywhere. What I'm getting at is it's easy to get by on simple jobs like that when you live in Nowhere, WY. Then, later, when the town booms people are incredulous about how you were ever able to afford living there.

benched 13y ago
They lived in a small house 6 miles from downtown Boston, in a nice middle class residential neighborhood. I couldn't afford to buy that house now. This is the sort of thing that suggests to me a big picture issue.
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  I couldn't afford to buy that house now That's exactly my point though, then & now are almost certainly not apples to apples, and "Well I couldn't afford their house today" is exactly the thing that I am saying is a mistake to think.