4 ms·

What'd your great grandparents do for entertainment? Probably the radio, some TV, read some books, play cards. Speaking of TV, how'd they get it? Most likely

What'd your great grandparents do for entertainment? Probably the radio, some TV, read some books, play cards. Speaking of TV, how'd they get it? Most likely over the air. Phone? Yeah, they had a land line, but they weren't dropping $100+ for a cell phone. Internet? Of course not. House? Probably about 1200 square feet or so, and they likely had more than 3 kids to occupy it. The rest of the world? A recovering war-torn mess that needed to rebuild itself before it could even start to compete with the US economically. What about the car? They probably had one or two, but you could fix them without needing specialized gear. What about the food they ate? It was likely whole foods, which would lead to lower rates of heart disease and obesity. And if they lived in a rural area or subdivision, they likely grew some of their own or bought it from local farmers. My grandparents never borrowed a dime from a bank. They owned a house, two vehicles, and raised 5 children. Their vacation was a week every summer at a rental cabin about 3 hours away. They didn't get cable until the mid 90s and never got the internet or a cell phone. How much money could you save if you never owed anyone interest and spent 20 dollars a month for communication?

kevingadd 13y ago
I think if you list cell phones and the internet before you list housing, your sense of scale is completely off. Even if somebody's spending $200/mo on telephone and internet connectivity, that still pales in comparison to the cost of rent in pretty much any part of the country. A fairly small studio apartment in the area where I live is approaching $2000/mo, minimum - to pay less than that I'd probably have to move 30+ miles away, which then increases my commuting costs dramatically and might force me to drive instead of take public transit. (And no, I'm not living in some posh downtown area with high demand, I'm living next to the low-income workers and big families, in an apartment complex built in the 70s or 80s.) Then let's look at health and dental costs, which combined together probably are double/triple what you pay combined for reasonable cell phone/internet service. (Personally, I pay $30/mo for cell phone voice and data. Internet is expensive because yay, monopolies - very little choice there.) Going without phone/internet connectivity in this modern society is utterly ridiculous as a working professional; you simply can't get away with it unless you decide you're gonna cut yourself off from the world and live in a cabin somewhere. To answer your specific question, let's say he spends $200/mo on internet+cell phone. If he cuts those out entirely, that's $2400/yr, or barely a month's rent in many localities. Don't be ridiculous. Stop focusing on tiny things when the real problems are right in front of you: Housing costs, health costs, transit costs...
- eqdw 13y ago
  > A fairly small studio apartment in the area where I live is approaching $2000/mo, minimum Unless you live in NY, SF (/me waves!), or DC, that number is grossly out of touch with the actual costs of rent in the United States.
  - kevingadd 13y ago
    http://priceonomics.com/the-rise-of-bay-area-rent-prices/ http://priceonomics.com/the-rise-of-bay-area-rent-prices/ This is from 2013. It hasn't gotten better. Their median for the city I live in is $2395 (and for reference, I'm an hour+ drive from San Francisco; ~2 hours by train). Rents around me have definitely been going up, even if they're not at $2400. And that's for studios/1 bedrooms. If I were to move into the exact apartment I have now, the rent on the lease would be a few hundred dollars more than what I'm already paying (despite the fact that they've been bumping my rent up as much as they can). Yes, there are low-rent areas. But a lot of people don't have the option to live in them.
    - eqdw 13y ago
      When I said "NY, SF, DC" I meant the metro areas, not the cities. My friend is fond of telling me I could get a sweet 1000sqft loft in downtown Houston for $1200/mo or so. Or a regular apartment for half that. Of course, to me, not living in Texas is worth the extra thousand dollars a month
  - mikeash 13y ago
    Even for DC that's deeply out of touch. I spent about two minutes on apartments.com and found a building in Arlington, nice neighborhood and right on two Metro lines, with studios for $1200/month. $2000/month can get you two bedrooms with a balcony and about 900 ft^2. I get the feeling that people are confusing the rents in extremely desirable neighborhoods with the rents you must pay to be in the city at all.
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  Your local rental costs are whack, and not representative of most of the country.

kevingadd 13y ago

I think if you list cell phones and the internet before you list housing, your sense of scale is completely off. Even if somebody's spending $200/mo on telephone and internet connectivity, that still pales in comparison to the cost of rent in pretty much any part of the country. A fairly small studio apartment in the area where I live is approaching $2000/mo, minimum - to pay less than that I'd probably have to move 30+ miles away, which then increases my commuting costs dramatically and might force me to drive instead of take public transit. (And no, I'm not living in some posh downtown area with high demand, I'm living next to the low-income workers and big families, in an apartment complex built in the 70s or 80s.) Then let's look at health and dental costs, which combined together probably are double/triple what you pay combined for reasonable cell phone/internet service. (Personally, I pay $30/mo for cell phone voice and data. Internet is expensive because yay, monopolies - very little choice there.) Going without phone/internet connectivity in this modern society is utterly ridiculous as a working professional; you simply can't get away with it unless you decide you're gonna cut yourself off from the world and live in a cabin somewhere. To answer your specific question, let's say he spends $200/mo on internet+cell phone. If he cuts those out entirely, that's $2400/yr, or barely a month's rent in many localities. Don't be ridiculous. Stop focusing on tiny things when the real problems are right in front of you: Housing costs, health costs, transit costs...

eqdw 13y ago
> A fairly small studio apartment in the area where I live is approaching $2000/mo, minimum Unless you live in NY, SF (/me waves!), or DC, that number is grossly out of touch with the actual costs of rent in the United States.
- kevingadd 13y ago
  http://priceonomics.com/the-rise-of-bay-area-rent-prices/ http://priceonomics.com/the-rise-of-bay-area-rent-prices/ This is from 2013. It hasn't gotten better. Their median for the city I live in is $2395 (and for reference, I'm an hour+ drive from San Francisco; ~2 hours by train). Rents around me have definitely been going up, even if they're not at $2400. And that's for studios/1 bedrooms. If I were to move into the exact apartment I have now, the rent on the lease would be a few hundred dollars more than what I'm already paying (despite the fact that they've been bumping my rent up as much as they can). Yes, there are low-rent areas. But a lot of people don't have the option to live in them.
  - eqdw 13y ago
    When I said "NY, SF, DC" I meant the metro areas, not the cities. My friend is fond of telling me I could get a sweet 1000sqft loft in downtown Houston for $1200/mo or so. Or a regular apartment for half that. Of course, to me, not living in Texas is worth the extra thousand dollars a month
- mikeash 13y ago
  Even for DC that's deeply out of touch. I spent about two minutes on apartments.com and found a building in Arlington, nice neighborhood and right on two Metro lines, with studios for $1200/month. $2000/month can get you two bedrooms with a balcony and about 900 ft^2. I get the feeling that people are confusing the rents in extremely desirable neighborhoods with the rents you must pay to be in the city at all.
sliverstorm 13y ago
Your local rental costs are whack, and not representative of most of the country.