24 ms·

I'm not sure if I agree that your grandparents were under less pressure in their jobs. Overall, I think life is far easier today than it was 50 years ago, at le

I'm not sure if I agree that your grandparents were under less pressure in their jobs. Overall, I think life is far easier today than it was 50 years ago, at least for most workers. It sounds like you're doing better than 99% of people. Six figure income, no huge expenses. I think the question isn't 'what's the problem with the economy' - really the question should be 'what's the problem with our expectations?' I think for all of human history the Joneses have looked more financially comfortable and happy than they really are. Perhaps the comfortable people you envy are not as comfortable as they appear. Or maybe comfort is more a state of mind than a state of finance. Those are my two cents, at least. I'd be happy to hear more about your situation and where you're coming from.

kevingadd 13y ago
He made it clear he's not complaining about his situation and is asking about others', in general - or more precisely, 'My situation is fairly okay, but why isn't it great on my income? Why do other people have it so much worse when it seems like they should be okay?'
- tedsanders 13y ago
  Sorry, I didn't mean to accuse him of complaining. It's a perfectly fair question - if $100k income is not enough to cause happiness, then what is? I suspect that even $1 million might not be enough to cause happiness. Or even $10 million. I remember reading that income stops being a predictor of happiness after around $75k per year. Here is the first source I googled: http://www.inc.com/news/articles/2010/09/study-says-$75,000-can-buy-happiness.html http://www.inc.com/news/articles/2010/09/study-says-$75,000-... Even though it seems like money reduces hardship and should increase happiness, I think as long as you aren't broke, relationships matter more than bank accounts. What do you think?
  - kevingadd 13y ago
    I agree completely. To me, the most concerning question is whether eventually, his $110k income won't even be enough for the essentials - housing, health care, taxes, food, etc. Costs keep going up; will they stop? Will his income go up automatically? Where's the money going to come from? Most of the profits and growth in this economy seem to be going to people who are already rich, while jobs keep evaporating. Things sound like they're OK for the OP right now, and he doesn't sound incredibly troubled, just perturbed. And that's probably the right point of view; no use freaking out. But I genuinely worry for a big chunk of the US - people my age and younger - because I don't know if they'll be able to afford anything, or get jobs, 10 years from now. Once you're able to pay your expenses and put enough money away to have piece of mind, I think the intangible things matter most. If all my friends have to move into the wilderness to afford their rent, though, I'm gonna be pretty lonely :)
benched 13y ago
Well, I can't really know my grandparents' state of mind. But my grandfather drove trucks locally, and my grandmother worked in a supermarket. Try to imagine affording a single family house and two cars with jobs like that today. They always seemed like they enjoyed their jobs. My grandfather kept working long after retirement age. I never heard them complain about their jobs or give any indication they didn't like them. If 99% of people are worse off than I am, that seems like an extremely serious problem to me. Hence my question.
- analyst74 13y ago
  It is a state of mind, at least in part. Older generation, especially those through the hardsihps of war, are happy to live, period. Jobs we consider shitty today (like cashier or truck driver) are much better than infantry man in war torn Europe. Today's people are much more spoiled, not just in consumerism, but the idea of being above manual labour, freedom to chase your unprofitable goal, not settle until you found a dream job are all quite new.
- tedsanders 13y ago
  Thanks for your reply. Maybe it has to do with WWII. After WWII, the US was the only great economic power left undamaged. Our industries supplied the world, and they boomed. That wealth trickled down to many people in the US. Now, decades after WWII, other countries around the world have developed their own industry, driving down global prices and wages. As a result, perhaps the average global worker is better off, but the average US worker is worse off. This may partly explain why median wages have been stagnant in the US since 1974ish. I wonder how much of comfort is attitude or perspective. I also happen to be a single man living in a high-rent city (Palo Alto). My income is about $30,000. Rent is my largest expense by far, but overall I feel quite comfortable. I manage to contribute $5k each January to my Roth IRA. No doubt if I had children or medical expenses, my $30,000 income would be strained, but right now I feel relatively comfortable on it. My needs are met.
  - eqdw 13y ago
    > I wonder how much of comfort is attitude or perspective. I also happen to be a single man living in a high-rent city (Palo Alto). My income is about $30,000. I live in a shitty small apartment in a run down part of SF, and my annual rent is $20,000. Either you're talking net income, PA is way cheaper than I've been led to believe, or there's some factor I'm missing
eqdw 13y ago
> Life is far easier today than it was 50 years ago, at least for most workers. Whenever I find myself following the line of thinking that OP put forward, I try and remember: I'm the first generation in my family to be able to rely on the fact that any place I'm in (read: my car and my personal residence) has air conditioning

kevingadd 13y ago

He made it clear he's not complaining about his situation and is asking about others', in general - or more precisely, 'My situation is fairly okay, but why isn't it great on my income? Why do other people have it so much worse when it seems like they should be okay?'

tedsanders 13y ago
Sorry, I didn't mean to accuse him of complaining. It's a perfectly fair question - if $100k income is not enough to cause happiness, then what is? I suspect that even $1 million might not be enough to cause happiness. Or even $10 million. I remember reading that income stops being a predictor of happiness after around $75k per year. Here is the first source I googled: http://www.inc.com/news/articles/2010/09/study-says-$75,000-can-buy-happiness.html http://www.inc.com/news/articles/2010/09/study-says-$75,000-... Even though it seems like money reduces hardship and should increase happiness, I think as long as you aren't broke, relationships matter more than bank accounts. What do you think?
- kevingadd 13y ago
  I agree completely. To me, the most concerning question is whether eventually, his $110k income won't even be enough for the essentials - housing, health care, taxes, food, etc. Costs keep going up; will they stop? Will his income go up automatically? Where's the money going to come from? Most of the profits and growth in this economy seem to be going to people who are already rich, while jobs keep evaporating. Things sound like they're OK for the OP right now, and he doesn't sound incredibly troubled, just perturbed. And that's probably the right point of view; no use freaking out. But I genuinely worry for a big chunk of the US - people my age and younger - because I don't know if they'll be able to afford anything, or get jobs, 10 years from now. Once you're able to pay your expenses and put enough money away to have piece of mind, I think the intangible things matter most. If all my friends have to move into the wilderness to afford their rent, though, I'm gonna be pretty lonely :)

benched 13y ago

Well, I can't really know my grandparents' state of mind. But my grandfather drove trucks locally, and my grandmother worked in a supermarket. Try to imagine affording a single family house and two cars with jobs like that today. They always seemed like they enjoyed their jobs. My grandfather kept working long after retirement age. I never heard them complain about their jobs or give any indication they didn't like them. If 99% of people are worse off than I am, that seems like an extremely serious problem to me. Hence my question.

analyst74 13y ago
It is a state of mind, at least in part. Older generation, especially those through the hardsihps of war, are happy to live, period. Jobs we consider shitty today (like cashier or truck driver) are much better than infantry man in war torn Europe. Today's people are much more spoiled, not just in consumerism, but the idea of being above manual labour, freedom to chase your unprofitable goal, not settle until you found a dream job are all quite new.
tedsanders 13y ago
Thanks for your reply. Maybe it has to do with WWII. After WWII, the US was the only great economic power left undamaged. Our industries supplied the world, and they boomed. That wealth trickled down to many people in the US. Now, decades after WWII, other countries around the world have developed their own industry, driving down global prices and wages. As a result, perhaps the average global worker is better off, but the average US worker is worse off. This may partly explain why median wages have been stagnant in the US since 1974ish. I wonder how much of comfort is attitude or perspective. I also happen to be a single man living in a high-rent city (Palo Alto). My income is about $30,000. Rent is my largest expense by far, but overall I feel quite comfortable. I manage to contribute $5k each January to my Roth IRA. No doubt if I had children or medical expenses, my $30,000 income would be strained, but right now I feel relatively comfortable on it. My needs are met.
- eqdw 13y ago
  > I wonder how much of comfort is attitude or perspective. I also happen to be a single man living in a high-rent city (Palo Alto). My income is about $30,000. I live in a shitty small apartment in a run down part of SF, and my annual rent is $20,000. Either you're talking net income, PA is way cheaper than I've been led to believe, or there's some factor I'm missing

eqdw 13y ago

> Life is far easier today than it was 50 years ago, at least for most workers. Whenever I find myself following the line of thinking that OP put forward, I try and remember: I'm the first generation in my family to be able to rely on the fact that any place I'm in (read: my car and my personal residence) has air conditioning