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The law doesn't prevent you from committing crimes. It certainly did not prevent Mt. Gox from making bitcoins disappear. If that happens and you need to go to

by diego 13y ago

The law doesn't prevent you from committing crimes. It certainly did not prevent Mt. Gox from making bitcoins disappear. If that happens and you need to go to court, good luck proving that an exchange stole your coins. We haven't even seen Mt. Gox play out yet. Suppose they actually stole everyone's coins. Can someone prove it wasn't a hacker or a software bug? Time will tell.

sheetjs 13y ago
The one good thing about coinbase is that they do react to outrage on HN. For example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6929705 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6929705
- k-mcgrady 13y ago
  The fact that public outrage is required to get their attention when dealing with such large amounts of money doesn't inspire confidence. Your example is a good example of bad customer service, not something good to credit them with.
gnaritas 13y ago
> The law doesn't prevent you from committing crimes. That wasn't the question, the question was what's to stop them and the answer I objected to was "Nothing"; that's false, the law is not nothing. What's to stop most bad behavior... the law.
- makomk 13y ago
  The law is fairly obviously not an answer though, given the context. The original question specifically asked what stops Coinbase from shutting down and taking everyone's money like MtGox did. It was just as illegal when MtGox did it, yet it happened anyway. (Actually, most of the other answers have the exact same problem.)
  - gnaritas 13y ago
    > The law is fairly obviously not an answer though, given the context. You're free to think that, I'm free to think you're wrong. MtGox is in Japan, Coinbase isn't; the contexts are different.
  - natrius 13y ago
    If there is evidence that MtGox was complicit in the loss of their customers' Bitcoin, someone will go to jail, regardless of the jurisdiction. It's plain old theft.
- smtddr 13y ago
  >>What's to stop most bad behavior... the law No... what stops most bad behavior is _consequences_. The law applies to everyone, but the consequences for breaking them don't. We will see what(if any) consequences are placed upon MtGox. Personally, I still can't see how MtGox will be found liable of anything. Bitcoins aren't protected under any law and nobody said it was okay to trade your hard-earned government-backed fiat for some magical interwebz money. It might as well be fairy wings & unicorn tails. Don't get me wrong, I'm into crypto-coins and willing to lose up to 7k on them... but I fully understand that my coins could disappear in the next 5 mins due to any number of reasons and I have absolutely nobody to blame but myself.
  - gnaritas 13y ago
    The law is what defines the consequences, your pedantry is pointless. > Bitcoins aren't protected under any law False. Just because something is new doesn't mean existing laws don't apply to it. Bitcoins are property and property is protected by law regardless of when said item was invented. We don't have to create new law to cover every new invention man decides to own.
    - smtddr 13y ago
      I disagree with you... but we'll see how it plays out with MtGox. In the eyes of the law, I don't think bitcoin is your property anymore than buying a special weapon on Eve Online with fiat-money is your legal property. Maybe it should be, maybe it will be, but today that's not the case. Or maybe I'm completely wrong... Has anyone sought legal action on financial loss related the value of an item inside Eve Online? Or any virtual item in any system? A straight scam I understand, but say you purchased a bunch of rare swords & armor in some online game then next month the server crashes and all players lose their virtual items and the gaming company goes bankrupt. Is the company liable?

by diego 13y ago

sheetjs 13y ago

The one good thing about coinbase is that they do react to outrage on HN. For example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6929705 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6929705

k-mcgrady 13y ago
The fact that public outrage is required to get their attention when dealing with such large amounts of money doesn't inspire confidence. Your example is a good example of bad customer service, not something good to credit them with.

gnaritas 13y ago

> The law doesn't prevent you from committing crimes. That wasn't the question, the question was what's to stop them and the answer I objected to was "Nothing"; that's false, the law is not nothing. What's to stop most bad behavior... the law.

makomk 13y ago
The law is fairly obviously not an answer though, given the context. The original question specifically asked what stops Coinbase from shutting down and taking everyone's money like MtGox did. It was just as illegal when MtGox did it, yet it happened anyway. (Actually, most of the other answers have the exact same problem.)
- gnaritas 13y ago
  > The law is fairly obviously not an answer though, given the context. You're free to think that, I'm free to think you're wrong. MtGox is in Japan, Coinbase isn't; the contexts are different.
- natrius 13y ago
  If there is evidence that MtGox was complicit in the loss of their customers' Bitcoin, someone will go to jail, regardless of the jurisdiction. It's plain old theft.
smtddr 13y ago
>>What's to stop most bad behavior... the law No... what stops most bad behavior is _consequences_. The law applies to everyone, but the consequences for breaking them don't. We will see what(if any) consequences are placed upon MtGox. Personally, I still can't see how MtGox will be found liable of anything. Bitcoins aren't protected under any law and nobody said it was okay to trade your hard-earned government-backed fiat for some magical interwebz money. It might as well be fairy wings & unicorn tails. Don't get me wrong, I'm into crypto-coins and willing to lose up to 7k on them... but I fully understand that my coins could disappear in the next 5 mins due to any number of reasons and I have absolutely nobody to blame but myself.
- gnaritas 13y ago
  The law is what defines the consequences, your pedantry is pointless. > Bitcoins aren't protected under any law False. Just because something is new doesn't mean existing laws don't apply to it. Bitcoins are property and property is protected by law regardless of when said item was invented. We don't have to create new law to cover every new invention man decides to own.
  - smtddr 13y ago
    I disagree with you... but we'll see how it plays out with MtGox. In the eyes of the law, I don't think bitcoin is your property anymore than buying a special weapon on Eve Online with fiat-money is your legal property. Maybe it should be, maybe it will be, but today that's not the case. Or maybe I'm completely wrong... Has anyone sought legal action on financial loss related the value of an item inside Eve Online? Or any virtual item in any system? A straight scam I understand, but say you purchased a bunch of rare swords & armor in some online game then next month the server crashes and all players lose their virtual items and the gaming company goes bankrupt. Is the company liable?