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True, but you also wrote "So there may be a way to capture more of the market Segway hoped to reach [by redesigning it to make the operator look more active]".

by jknupp 17y ago

True, but you also wrote "So there may be a way to capture more of the market Segway hoped to reach [by redesigning it to make the operator look more active]". In all honesty, for how many people do you think "how I look while riding it" is the single factor stopping them from buying a Segway? Your statement implies that this is not the vanishingly small number of people I would expect it to be.

Retric 17y ago
From a utility standpoint a Segway's would be perfect for traveling around a Zoo / Disneyland. Rent them for ~30$ a day and it could be vary popular and profitable. However, there seems to be little gain from owning one because they have the same downsides of a bike. Plus, you need to charge them, and you need to more concerned with them getting stolen. So, the consumer Segway market is basically an expensive vanity item. But, few people actually want to be seen on them due to look and feel issues.
- mrtron 17y ago
  No way. The majority of people going to zoos/disneyland are families. What are you going to do with your 5, 3 and 1 year old children?
- lnguyen 17y ago
  There are city tours that use Segways (see http://citysegwaytours.com http://citysegwaytours.com for instance). The dork factor isn't that big of a deal if you're already easily flagged as being a tourist (fanny pack, camera hanging off your neck, etc.). It also makes a lot of sense in that it allows you to cover significantly more territory than you'd otherwise be able to on foot and you're not trapped in the same kind of bubble as you would be on a tour bus.
caffeine 17y ago
Most probably think it's nice, but: - I can't ride it up an 80 degree slope covered in ice with unreasonably intense instrumental metal playing in the background. - It cannot carry the enormous frozen mammal I just picked up at Sam's Club, let alone the metric ton of salsa that was on offer. - People would laugh and call me Mall Cop, and I'd feel like a twat. - I would be broke after buying this, and being broke, mocked, hungry, and unable to go off-road is just too frustrating. .. on the other hand, it's really neat.
erlanger 17y ago
> In all honesty, for how many people do you think "how I look while riding it" is the single factor stopping them from buying a Segway? Many people, especially those in the market for a new form of walking (people with serious dough), will spend money on impulse, not based on practical utility. Image is a huge selling point for most consumers, though they may not acknowledge it.
- donaq 17y ago
  Image is a huge selling point for most consumers, though they may not acknowledge it. Agreed. I mean, look at Macs. Granted, Macs have technical merit, but how many people who use Macs actually bought them for technical superiority and how many others bought them because Apple makes them look cool?
zck 17y ago
People do consider other people's reactions. Since people riding a Segway are seen as "uncool", many people won't even consider buying one. They don't get to the point where they're looking at pros and cons; buying one isn't even a consideration.
- gaius 17y ago
  That isn't true and that's easy to prove: old ladies don't care what anyone thinks about those upright cloth shopping carts with the little wheels they use, I don't even know what the right name for them is. The Segway could be a motorized one of them. Hip urban web 2.0 Ruby rockstar ninjas are not the only market for tech.
greendestiny 17y ago
I don't think anyone would have that thought process. However, if it was released initially without a pole and ridden sideways it would have been taken up by a young early adopter base who would have made it seem cool. People aren't immune from cultural effects, and for most people the thing the segway has over walking is being fun, cool and futuristic.
olefoo 17y ago
When you add up the negatives, the cost, the limited range, the fact that it's awkward in many common situations, and it's going to make you look like a dork... I think that's one of the things that would tip the balance for me. Of course I wouldn't even consider a segway, because the range and cargo capacity are not sufficient for a motor vehicle; and I prefer a bike for local motion.
pg 17y ago
That's why I wrote "capture more of the market Segway hoped to reach" instead of "capture the market Segway hoped to reach" I know firsthand that Segways aren't that useful, because for a couple years I could ride the Segwell whenever I wanted, and all I ever did with it was tool around on the street in front of YC. That is why I qualified these passages the way I did. And that's enough; I'm not going to start cluttering essays with clauses to head off every misinterpretation someone might post on a forum. I suppose I could create a separate page for each essay, answering in advance all the mistaken objections I knew people would raise about it. ("Note that I did not claim that this is the main problem with the Segway, just one of many" etc, etc.) It seems like a waste of time, but it would take less than this discussion has.
- messel 17y ago
  I'd wager responding to the vultures is unproductive. The majority of readers follow your point. Respoding just fuels their linguistics lawyering further.
- timdellinger 17y ago
  "Note that I did not claim that this is the main problem with the Segway, just one of many" I think the title of the essay (The Trouble with the Segway) kinda does imply that this is the main problem. The title suggests that the essay will explain the Segway's lack of success. Perhaps a different title would have prepared the reader for what was actually in the essay. How about "The Segway's other problem". Personally, I'm starting to think that the real problem is this: it lacks dignity.
messel 17y ago
I think there's a market need for physically handicapped folks but thr segway was never designed for them. Agreed the market targeted Was hallucinated

by jknupp 17y ago

Retric 17y ago

From a utility standpoint a Segway's would be perfect for traveling around a Zoo / Disneyland. Rent them for ~30$ a day and it could be vary popular and profitable. However, there seems to be little gain from owning one because they have the same downsides of a bike. Plus, you need to charge them, and you need to more concerned with them getting stolen. So, the consumer Segway market is basically an expensive vanity item. But, few people actually want to be seen on them due to look and feel issues.

mrtron 17y ago
No way. The majority of people going to zoos/disneyland are families. What are you going to do with your 5, 3 and 1 year old children?
lnguyen 17y ago
There are city tours that use Segways (see http://citysegwaytours.com http://citysegwaytours.com for instance). The dork factor isn't that big of a deal if you're already easily flagged as being a tourist (fanny pack, camera hanging off your neck, etc.). It also makes a lot of sense in that it allows you to cover significantly more territory than you'd otherwise be able to on foot and you're not trapped in the same kind of bubble as you would be on a tour bus.

caffeine 17y ago

Most probably think it's nice, but: - I can't ride it up an 80 degree slope covered in ice with unreasonably intense instrumental metal playing in the background. - It cannot carry the enormous frozen mammal I just picked up at Sam's Club, let alone the metric ton of salsa that was on offer. - People would laugh and call me Mall Cop, and I'd feel like a twat. - I would be broke after buying this, and being broke, mocked, hungry, and unable to go off-road is just too frustrating. .. on the other hand, it's really neat.

erlanger 17y ago

> In all honesty, for how many people do you think "how I look while riding it" is the single factor stopping them from buying a Segway? Many people, especially those in the market for a new form of walking (people with serious dough), will spend money on impulse, not based on practical utility. Image is a huge selling point for most consumers, though they may not acknowledge it.

donaq 17y ago
Image is a huge selling point for most consumers, though they may not acknowledge it. Agreed. I mean, look at Macs. Granted, Macs have technical merit, but how many people who use Macs actually bought them for technical superiority and how many others bought them because Apple makes them look cool?

zck 17y ago

People do consider other people's reactions. Since people riding a Segway are seen as "uncool", many people won't even consider buying one. They don't get to the point where they're looking at pros and cons; buying one isn't even a consideration.

gaius 17y ago
That isn't true and that's easy to prove: old ladies don't care what anyone thinks about those upright cloth shopping carts with the little wheels they use, I don't even know what the right name for them is. The Segway could be a motorized one of them. Hip urban web 2.0 Ruby rockstar ninjas are not the only market for tech.

greendestiny 17y ago

I don't think anyone would have that thought process. However, if it was released initially without a pole and ridden sideways it would have been taken up by a young early adopter base who would have made it seem cool. People aren't immune from cultural effects, and for most people the thing the segway has over walking is being fun, cool and futuristic.

olefoo 17y ago

When you add up the negatives, the cost, the limited range, the fact that it's awkward in many common situations, and it's going to make you look like a dork... I think that's one of the things that would tip the balance for me. Of course I wouldn't even consider a segway, because the range and cargo capacity are not sufficient for a motor vehicle; and I prefer a bike for local motion.

pg 17y ago

That's why I wrote "capture more of the market Segway hoped to reach" instead of "capture the market Segway hoped to reach" I know firsthand that Segways aren't that useful, because for a couple years I could ride the Segwell whenever I wanted, and all I ever did with it was tool around on the street in front of YC. That is why I qualified these passages the way I did. And that's enough; I'm not going to start cluttering essays with clauses to head off every misinterpretation someone might post on a forum. I suppose I could create a separate page for each essay, answering in advance all the mistaken objections I knew people would raise about it. ("Note that I did not claim that this is the main problem with the Segway, just one of many" etc, etc.) It seems like a waste of time, but it would take less than this discussion has.

messel 17y ago
I'd wager responding to the vultures is unproductive. The majority of readers follow your point. Respoding just fuels their linguistics lawyering further.
timdellinger 17y ago
"Note that I did not claim that this is the main problem with the Segway, just one of many" I think the title of the essay (The Trouble with the Segway) kinda does imply that this is the main problem. The title suggests that the essay will explain the Segway's lack of success. Perhaps a different title would have prepared the reader for what was actually in the essay. How about "The Segway's other problem". Personally, I'm starting to think that the real problem is this: it lacks dignity.

messel 17y ago

I think there's a market need for physically handicapped folks but thr segway was never designed for them. Agreed the market targeted Was hallucinated