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Here's a question this post prompts for me: What is a startup and what is just a website that sells license plates? People use the term startup, around here es

by bjplink 17y ago

Here's a question this post prompts for me: What is a startup and what is just a website that sells license plates? People use the term startup, around here especially, a whole bunch but it feels to me like there should be some kind of clear distinction between a company founded as a startup and a single website. I have a handful of websites that make some money but I would never call any of them a startup on an individual basis. I might call the all encompassing enterprise of building and maintaining those sites a startup but I think calling each individual site that is a bit of a stretch.

anigbrowl 17y ago
A business is a business, even if it has a simple obvious business model - you still have to put a value on your time, do paperwork for it if you make any money (or not, I guess the domain registration is deductible) and buy some keywords or whatever. Of course, it's not the sort of startup we love on HN because there's no new technology or functionality involved, and it has no potential as a tool in and of itself. But I'd say it's still a startup, banality and all. I look forward to hearing more about it; I'd love to have a side project bringing in a few grand a year on a one-day-a-week basis.
mixmax 17y ago
A startup is just a venture where the goal is to make a company that can manufacture masses of license plates cheaply. Google manufactures search, Microsoft operating systems, etc. Once you make the switch from developing better and cheaper license plates to churning them out at a high rate you're no longer a startup but just another company.
10ren 17y ago
small business: a small business that intends to stay small e.g. a hamburger shop startup: a small business that intends to get big. example: a chain of hamburger shops (of course a chain is only one way to "get big"). Note that because they are distinguished by intention, you could have two factually identical hamburger shops, with one being a small business, and the other being a startup run by a deluded nutter, who crazily envisioned a chain of hamburger shops, when every sensible right-thinking person knew that was silly. But I would call it a startup, because of the intention. pg thinks that it's rare for a startup to succeed (read: "get big") without funding (I'm not so sure, but I can't think of any counter-examples: google, yahoo etc all had funding). 37 signals advocates organic growth, and this works really well for a small business, such as "just a website that sells license plates". 37 signals themselves seem to have grown significantly, but I'm not sure they would be classed a "big company", but seem on the small end of "medium/small business" - therefore they are not (yet) an example of a startup getting big without funding (I'm not sure of their intention - it could be that they don't want this; i.e. that they aren't a "startup" at all). Joel's Fog Creek software is also small at the moment - I don't know whether he intends to become big, and so whether his company is a startup or a small business.
- ovi256 17y ago
  I do not agree at all with your definition of startup. I would just put it under small bussiness too. Yes, they have the intention of getting big, but everybody has that hope. pg puts it well in one of his essayes: a startup is a company that solves a hard technical problem. The techical part is essential, not an afterthought. A fast-food chain would use tech, but it would not advance the art.
  - killingmichael 17y ago
    I really like Eric Ries definition of a startup: A startup is a human institution designed to deliver a new product or service under conditions of extreme uncertainty. http://startuplessonslearned.blogspot.com/2009/05/lean-startup-webcast-post-game.html http://startuplessonslearned.blogspot.com/2009/05/lean-start... If I was to add anything to it, it would be something about 'ability to scale'.
  - 10ren 17y ago
    Not everybody has the hope to get big, e.g. my favourite cafe doesn't. I would say that someone who wishes to get big, but doesn't take appropriate action, will still have a startup, albeit likely unsuccessful. You might define someone's company as not being a startup because you don't think they will be successful - but how do you know they won't be? Hence my ironic use of "delusional" etc. Many startups were doubted before they became successful. http://www.paulgraham.com/wealth.html http://www.paulgraham.com/wealth.html references the example to which I alluded: McDonald's.

by bjplink 17y ago

anigbrowl 17y ago

A business is a business, even if it has a simple obvious business model - you still have to put a value on your time, do paperwork for it if you make any money (or not, I guess the domain registration is deductible) and buy some keywords or whatever. Of course, it's not the sort of startup we love on HN because there's no new technology or functionality involved, and it has no potential as a tool in and of itself. But I'd say it's still a startup, banality and all. I look forward to hearing more about it; I'd love to have a side project bringing in a few grand a year on a one-day-a-week basis.

mixmax 17y ago

A startup is just a venture where the goal is to make a company that can manufacture masses of license plates cheaply. Google manufactures search, Microsoft operating systems, etc. Once you make the switch from developing better and cheaper license plates to churning them out at a high rate you're no longer a startup but just another company.

10ren 17y ago

small business: a small business that intends to stay small e.g. a hamburger shop startup: a small business that intends to get big. example: a chain of hamburger shops (of course a chain is only one way to "get big"). Note that because they are distinguished by intention, you could have two factually identical hamburger shops, with one being a small business, and the other being a startup run by a deluded nutter, who crazily envisioned a chain of hamburger shops, when every sensible right-thinking person knew that was silly. But I would call it a startup, because of the intention. pg thinks that it's rare for a startup to succeed (read: "get big") without funding (I'm not so sure, but I can't think of any counter-examples: google, yahoo etc all had funding). 37 signals advocates organic growth, and this works really well for a small business, such as "just a website that sells license plates". 37 signals themselves seem to have grown significantly, but I'm not sure they would be classed a "big company", but seem on the small end of "medium/small business" - therefore they are not (yet) an example of a startup getting big without funding (I'm not sure of their intention - it could be that they don't want this; i.e. that they aren't a "startup" at all). Joel's Fog Creek software is also small at the moment - I don't know whether he intends to become big, and so whether his company is a startup or a small business.

ovi256 17y ago
I do not agree at all with your definition of startup. I would just put it under small bussiness too. Yes, they have the intention of getting big, but everybody has that hope. pg puts it well in one of his essayes: a startup is a company that solves a hard technical problem. The techical part is essential, not an afterthought. A fast-food chain would use tech, but it would not advance the art.
- killingmichael 17y ago
  I really like Eric Ries definition of a startup: A startup is a human institution designed to deliver a new product or service under conditions of extreme uncertainty. http://startuplessonslearned.blogspot.com/2009/05/lean-startup-webcast-post-game.html http://startuplessonslearned.blogspot.com/2009/05/lean-start... If I was to add anything to it, it would be something about 'ability to scale'.
- 10ren 17y ago
  Not everybody has the hope to get big, e.g. my favourite cafe doesn't. I would say that someone who wishes to get big, but doesn't take appropriate action, will still have a startup, albeit likely unsuccessful. You might define someone's company as not being a startup because you don't think they will be successful - but how do you know they won't be? Hence my ironic use of "delusional" etc. Many startups were doubted before they became successful. http://www.paulgraham.com/wealth.html http://www.paulgraham.com/wealth.html references the example to which I alluded: McDonald's.