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See, I never get the tinfoil hat crowd. Are any of us so self-important, that we think our usage stats for a text editor are some kind of top-secret data? I m

See, I never get the tinfoil hat crowd. Are any of us so self-important, that we think our usage stats for a text editor are some kind of top-secret data? I mean, come on - it's a text editor - I edit my scratchpad and my coding projects on it. If any of the stuff I had was that top-secret, I'd be doing it in a digital clean-room, with an airgap. And I'd actually have top-secret clearance. How many of us here actually have top secret clearance? I'd bet very few...lol. And I doubt they'd be posting here, or admit it. My list of text files I have open is quite frankly, is not that interesting. I don't really care if Google wants to mine it. Or if Github finds out I edit a document called "Lolcat images" fifteen times a day. I seriously doubt any Githubber is going to be sitting there, pouring through logs looking for salacious information about the documents I edit...

shittyanalogy 13y ago
Some people with lives "not that interesting" don't want to give up their privacy. Some of us even understand that there is no such thing as "anonymous statistics". It's not about a big government spying conspiracy. It's about basic privacy and not giving out data about yourself that you don't want to give out. There are also enormous trust implications.
- victorhooi 13y ago
  Hmm - but let's take your idea and think it through to it's completion. It's fine to say, oh but the privacy! But that in itself isn't an argument. It's just an appeal to emotion, with no facts. What do you think will happen if Github has usage data on how you use their text editor? Or what do you think will happen if Google knows what websites you search for? These aren't rhetorical questions - I'm actually curious what scenarios people actually think will play out. I find it unlikely that Google/Github would publicly publish that information on their websites. I also find it unlikely that an individual person would ever view your data. What other scenarios do you believe will happen? Now, if the government were involved, that's a completely different kettle of fish.
  - Dewie 13y ago
    > It's fine to say, oh but the privacy! But that in itself isn't an argument. It's just an appeal to emotion, with no facts. How about: I don't like to be watched. That's a fact, though I'm sure you'll dismiss it as an appeal to emotion.
    - victorhooi 13y ago
      Do you actually think somebody at Github/Google is individually watching you? As individual data points, I doubt we're that interesting. It's like NetFlix knowing what movies I watch. I doubt any single NetFlix employee could give two cents that Victor in Australia likes watching Once Upon A Time. (Awesome show, btw). However, if I watch Once Upon A Time, and I also watch XYZ, and then other people do the same, maybe they get to improve their algorithm. Woot to them. Maybe Github want to know what features get used. Or what performance issues people are experiencing. Maybe it's definitions, but I don't consider this watching - they want to know what we do as an aggregate, but it's not like there's a little imp beside me watching me as I type. (Although I get how some people might feel that way, if it's just a black box to them).
      - shittyanalogy 13y ago
        Also, you do realize that no one is worried about whether "somebody at Github/Google is individually watching you." Unless of course they have an ex-lover at Github/Google. These organizations, and those capable of secretly subpoenaing them, have software and very fast computers that do the watching. And it's not watching, it's profile building. I'm not saying that this editor's phoning home of usage statistics is resulting in you being on the no-fly list, but you're argument is missing the point.
        Dewie 13y ago
        Thank you, you expressed my sentiments on this issue. :)
        victorhooi 13y ago
stormbrew 13y ago
Obviously your life is more interesting than you think given that so many people eagerly want to track it.
- victorhooi 13y ago
  Err, did you just agree with me? Lol. My premise is that my life isn't that interesting, and if Github wants to track how I use their product, then sure. Heck, if they send me a survey, and I can be bothered, I'd probably even fill it in with - this is how I use your editor, this is how you can improve it (in my opinion). If they can just collect that information for free, with no effort on my part, sure.
  - stormbrew 13y ago
    ... No? I don't see how what I said agrees with you in any way.
    - victorhooi 13y ago
      Hmm, re-reading your earlier comment again, it actually doesn't seem to make sense after all... Who wants to eagerly track my life? I'm confused what you mean here. Is GitHub meant to be "eagerly" tracking my life? As far as I'm aware, and what I stated was - they seem to be mining for usage data. It's the same way that www.github.com has GA enabled, to see what pages people go to. Is my life more interesting that I think? =) That would be pretty cool, but as far as I'm aware, I'm not some super-special VIP...haha.
yeukhon 13y ago
I just don't understand why people downvote you. It's quite stupid to downvote someone who is merely pointing out facts. Google analytic is everywhere. If you don't want Github to track you, then don't use it. So if people fear Google, then should Github do the tracking on its own? Then all the sudden Github is not evil anymore. But look: github has your repository, your code. If you have a private repo, github still owns the source code in their data store. So in the end, privacy on Github? Minimal. And you know what? Github itself has been using Google analytic for years. And now we are complaining about Google collecting data? If you care about privacy, you shouldn't even be using Github. If you care about your privacy, you should never give up your true IP, your true identity on the Internet.
- Dewie 13y ago
  So it's either all or nothing? It's possible to concede some privacy in some aspects of work/life while trying to retain it in another. Even though you have a Github account doesn't mean that all your code is on Github. You might not have remotely close to all the work you do in an editor on Github, at least if you're the kind of person who's more comfortable in your favorite editor than in a word-processor. People have been power users of editors for decades without needing the cloud or a remote, third party service in order to use them.
  - yeukhon 13y ago
    I was addressing the reaction. Github has been using GA for years and AFAIK there is no way to opt out via Github account settings. Atom is not something you use on Github; it's a desktop application. If you install a browser, you have the option to NOT send data to the browser vendor, but most people choose to use the default settings. I don't see why we have to think auto opt-in is bad or a bummer. Github even makes it explicit that you can disable GA (or whatever metric software they are using in Atom) in Atom and atom's opt out option is 100x better than Google Plus integration.
- Touche 13y ago
  > Google analytic is everywhere. If you don't want Github to track you, then don't use it. So if people fear Google, then should Github do the tracking on its own? Then all the sudden Github is not evil anymore. First, it is not "evil", it's just an invasion of privacy. Yes, if GitHub did their own tracking I wouldn't have a problem with it. What I don't want is one company that knows everything I do online and that's why I have a problem with GA. That GitHub tracks my activity on GitHub is completely acceptable. > And you know what? Github itself has been using Google analytic for years. And now we are complaining about Google collecting data? I can block GA in my browser, so this doesn't concern me. Using privacy invading tracking scripts all you want, I'll just block them. Can't really do the same in a desktop text editor.

shittyanalogy 13y ago

Some people with lives "not that interesting" don't want to give up their privacy. Some of us even understand that there is no such thing as "anonymous statistics". It's not about a big government spying conspiracy. It's about basic privacy and not giving out data about yourself that you don't want to give out. There are also enormous trust implications.

victorhooi 13y ago
Hmm - but let's take your idea and think it through to it's completion. It's fine to say, oh but the privacy! But that in itself isn't an argument. It's just an appeal to emotion, with no facts. What do you think will happen if Github has usage data on how you use their text editor? Or what do you think will happen if Google knows what websites you search for? These aren't rhetorical questions - I'm actually curious what scenarios people actually think will play out. I find it unlikely that Google/Github would publicly publish that information on their websites. I also find it unlikely that an individual person would ever view your data. What other scenarios do you believe will happen? Now, if the government were involved, that's a completely different kettle of fish.
- Dewie 13y ago
  > It's fine to say, oh but the privacy! But that in itself isn't an argument. It's just an appeal to emotion, with no facts. How about: I don't like to be watched. That's a fact, though I'm sure you'll dismiss it as an appeal to emotion.
  - victorhooi 13y ago
    Do you actually think somebody at Github/Google is individually watching you? As individual data points, I doubt we're that interesting. It's like NetFlix knowing what movies I watch. I doubt any single NetFlix employee could give two cents that Victor in Australia likes watching Once Upon A Time. (Awesome show, btw). However, if I watch Once Upon A Time, and I also watch XYZ, and then other people do the same, maybe they get to improve their algorithm. Woot to them. Maybe Github want to know what features get used. Or what performance issues people are experiencing. Maybe it's definitions, but I don't consider this watching - they want to know what we do as an aggregate, but it's not like there's a little imp beside me watching me as I type. (Although I get how some people might feel that way, if it's just a black box to them).
    - shittyanalogy 13y ago
      Also, you do realize that no one is worried about whether "somebody at Github/Google is individually watching you." Unless of course they have an ex-lover at Github/Google. These organizations, and those capable of secretly subpoenaing them, have software and very fast computers that do the watching. And it's not watching, it's profile building. I'm not saying that this editor's phoning home of usage statistics is resulting in you being on the no-fly list, but you're argument is missing the point.
      - Dewie 13y ago
        Thank you, you expressed my sentiments on this issue. :)
      - victorhooi 13y ago

stormbrew 13y ago

Obviously your life is more interesting than you think given that so many people eagerly want to track it.

victorhooi 13y ago
Err, did you just agree with me? Lol. My premise is that my life isn't that interesting, and if Github wants to track how I use their product, then sure. Heck, if they send me a survey, and I can be bothered, I'd probably even fill it in with - this is how I use your editor, this is how you can improve it (in my opinion). If they can just collect that information for free, with no effort on my part, sure.
- stormbrew 13y ago
  ... No? I don't see how what I said agrees with you in any way.
  - victorhooi 13y ago
    Hmm, re-reading your earlier comment again, it actually doesn't seem to make sense after all... Who wants to eagerly track my life? I'm confused what you mean here. Is GitHub meant to be "eagerly" tracking my life? As far as I'm aware, and what I stated was - they seem to be mining for usage data. It's the same way that www.github.com has GA enabled, to see what pages people go to. Is my life more interesting that I think? =) That would be pretty cool, but as far as I'm aware, I'm not some super-special VIP...haha.

yeukhon 13y ago

I just don't understand why people downvote you. It's quite stupid to downvote someone who is merely pointing out facts. Google analytic is everywhere. If you don't want Github to track you, then don't use it. So if people fear Google, then should Github do the tracking on its own? Then all the sudden Github is not evil anymore. But look: github has your repository, your code. If you have a private repo, github still owns the source code in their data store. So in the end, privacy on Github? Minimal. And you know what? Github itself has been using Google analytic for years. And now we are complaining about Google collecting data? If you care about privacy, you shouldn't even be using Github. If you care about your privacy, you should never give up your true IP, your true identity on the Internet.

Dewie 13y ago
So it's either all or nothing? It's possible to concede some privacy in some aspects of work/life while trying to retain it in another. Even though you have a Github account doesn't mean that all your code is on Github. You might not have remotely close to all the work you do in an editor on Github, at least if you're the kind of person who's more comfortable in your favorite editor than in a word-processor. People have been power users of editors for decades without needing the cloud or a remote, third party service in order to use them.
- yeukhon 13y ago
  I was addressing the reaction. Github has been using GA for years and AFAIK there is no way to opt out via Github account settings. Atom is not something you use on Github; it's a desktop application. If you install a browser, you have the option to NOT send data to the browser vendor, but most people choose to use the default settings. I don't see why we have to think auto opt-in is bad or a bummer. Github even makes it explicit that you can disable GA (or whatever metric software they are using in Atom) in Atom and atom's opt out option is 100x better than Google Plus integration.
Touche 13y ago
> Google analytic is everywhere. If you don't want Github to track you, then don't use it. So if people fear Google, then should Github do the tracking on its own? Then all the sudden Github is not evil anymore. First, it is not "evil", it's just an invasion of privacy. Yes, if GitHub did their own tracking I wouldn't have a problem with it. What I don't want is one company that knows everything I do online and that's why I have a problem with GA. That GitHub tracks my activity on GitHub is completely acceptable. > And you know what? Github itself has been using Google analytic for years. And now we are complaining about Google collecting data? I can block GA in my browser, so this doesn't concern me. Using privacy invading tracking scripts all you want, I'll just block them. Can't really do the same in a desktop text editor.