15 ms·

You seem to be mistaken on both counts. First, a federal law called EMTALA requires hospitals to provide emergency treatment regardless of citizenship or abili

by declan 13y ago

You seem to be mistaken on both counts. First, a federal law called EMTALA requires hospitals to provide emergency treatment regardless of citizenship or ability to pay. Second, there is more violence in the UK (about 2.5x-3x times as much per capita -- 993 violent crimes/100K vs. 399 violent crimes/100K) than the United States. And more pro-2A decisions from courts have led to a trend of reduction in US gun violence, including DC murders falling below triple digits post-Heller for the first time since 1963. (Of course it's possible that you live in a very peaceful society and view the UK as also having an unacceptable level of violence.) Now you may or may not choose to ever live in the United States; I don't care and it doesn't affect me either way. But you may want to educate yourself first.

adamnemecek 13y ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentiona... US: 4.7 per 100,000 inhabitants UK: 1.2 per 100,000 inhabitants Germany: 0.8 per 100,000 inhabitants
robotresearcher 13y ago
Those violent crimes in the UK don't tend to involve guns and/or becoming dead. UK homicide rate: 1.2 per 100,000 persons US homicide rate: 4.7 per 100,000 persons You are more than twice as likely to get beaten up in the UK than the US. You are around 4 times as likely to be murdered in the US than the UK. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentiona... The UK has a violence problem, probably at least in part due to the drinking. I feel less safe in London than LA. But it is crazy to deny that US gun violence isn't a thing.
- ry0ohki 13y ago
  Those statistics mean little outside of cohorts. I would wager to guess the murder rate for the class of people who visit HackerNews is 1 per 10,000,000. Being randomly murdered is not a rational fear in America.
  - robotresearcher 13y ago
    I'd prefer not to sweep problems under the rug because they are not suffered much by my "class".
    - ry0ohki 13y ago
      Who's sweeping problems under the rug? I'm simply saying it's not something you need to fear, unless you plan to enter the drug trade instead of coding.
      - soperj 13y ago
        Or go to School, university or a movie?
        ry0ohki 13y ago
        Because random mass shootings never occur in Europe or outside of the US... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emsdetten_school_shooting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emsdetten_school_shooting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawson_College_shooting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawson_College_shooting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_school_massacre http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_school_massacre
- declan 13y ago
  Nobody is saying that gun violence doesn't exist (though I wonder how much is limited to inner cities in areas none of us want to live in if we have a choice). But we're talking at cross purposes. The first post talked about violence. The second talked about violence. The third in the sequence, yours, switched the discussion to talk about homicides. Not all violent crimes are homicides.
  - robotresearcher 13y ago
    Quoting the first post "*2nd reason would be gun violence." The frequency of violence in the US is lower, but the death rate due to violence is much higher. Violence seems to be much more lethal in the US, for some reason.
  - soperj 13y ago
    Gun violence vs gun homicide is really just two sides of the same coin. Either way I don't want to be somewhere that chances of being shot go up appreciably, let alone just having a gun pulled on me w/ no shots fired.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
whyleyc 13y ago
Unfortunately we can't fact check your statistics since you didn't provide sources for them, but it's naive and irresponsible to compare "violent crimes" between the US & UK. The definition varies quite substantially - for example in the UK "violent crimes" encompasses harassment (without any physical injury) which to most lay people would not strike them as especially "violent". The facts are that in 2010, the US had an average murder rate of 4.8 murders per 100,000 people - 4 times higher than the UK’s rate of 1.2 per 100,000. Likelihood of being killed would seem to me to be a more useful indicator of societal violence. For those that are interested you can read more about these statistics here: http://blog.skepticallibertarian.com/2013/01/12/fact-checking-ben-swann-is-the-uk-really-5-times-more-violent-than-the-us/ http://blog.skepticallibertarian.com/2013/01/12/fact-checkin...
robotresearcher 13y ago
"emergency treatment" is not the same as the parent's "treated". Patching me up is not the same as taking care of my health. You seem to be in some kind of denial about the downsides of life in the US. It is great in many ways, but the financial risk of poor health and the gun-related murder rates are not good compared to most developed countries. You can still think it best overall without going out of your way to deny some serious issues.
JshWright 13y ago
> First, a federal law called EMTALA requires hospitals to provide emergency treatment regardless of citizenship or ability to pay. s/hospitals/hospitals that accept payments from medicaid and medicare/
- declan 13y ago
  Which is only, what, 99% of hospitals?
dragonwriter 13y ago
> First, a federal law called EMTALA requires hospitals to provide emergency treatment regardless of citizenship or ability to pay. Required emergency treatment is just short-term stabilization, it doesn't include the further treatment which may be medically necessary to provide a reasonable chance of good outcomes. This means, approximately, that without ability to pay, your treatment will stop at the point at which you would be admitted to the hospital from the ER.
soperj 13y ago
At no point will I ever have to write a post like this, because I know I(and my family) will be covered. I don't care what your laws say, the fact that someone is in this type of situation at all just isn't right. Especially in the richest country in the world.

by declan 13y ago

adamnemecek 13y ago

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentiona... US: 4.7 per 100,000 inhabitants UK: 1.2 per 100,000 inhabitants Germany: 0.8 per 100,000 inhabitants

robotresearcher 13y ago

Those violent crimes in the UK don't tend to involve guns and/or becoming dead. UK homicide rate: 1.2 per 100,000 persons US homicide rate: 4.7 per 100,000 persons You are more than twice as likely to get beaten up in the UK than the US. You are around 4 times as likely to be murdered in the US than the UK. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentiona... The UK has a violence problem, probably at least in part due to the drinking. I feel less safe in London than LA. But it is crazy to deny that US gun violence isn't a thing.

ry0ohki 13y ago
Those statistics mean little outside of cohorts. I would wager to guess the murder rate for the class of people who visit HackerNews is 1 per 10,000,000. Being randomly murdered is not a rational fear in America.
- robotresearcher 13y ago
  I'd prefer not to sweep problems under the rug because they are not suffered much by my "class".
  - ry0ohki 13y ago
    Who's sweeping problems under the rug? I'm simply saying it's not something you need to fear, unless you plan to enter the drug trade instead of coding.
    - soperj 13y ago
      Or go to School, university or a movie?
      - ry0ohki 13y ago
        Because random mass shootings never occur in Europe or outside of the US... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Norway_attacks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emsdetten_school_shooting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emsdetten_school_shooting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawson_College_shooting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawson_College_shooting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_school_massacre http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_school_massacre
declan 13y ago
Nobody is saying that gun violence doesn't exist (though I wonder how much is limited to inner cities in areas none of us want to live in if we have a choice). But we're talking at cross purposes. The first post talked about violence. The second talked about violence. The third in the sequence, yours, switched the discussion to talk about homicides. Not all violent crimes are homicides.
- robotresearcher 13y ago
  Quoting the first post "*2nd reason would be gun violence." The frequency of violence in the US is lower, but the death rate due to violence is much higher. Violence seems to be much more lethal in the US, for some reason.
- soperj 13y ago
  Gun violence vs gun homicide is really just two sides of the same coin. Either way I don't want to be somewhere that chances of being shot go up appreciably, let alone just having a gun pulled on me w/ no shots fired.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

whyleyc 13y ago

Unfortunately we can't fact check your statistics since you didn't provide sources for them, but it's naive and irresponsible to compare "violent crimes" between the US & UK. The definition varies quite substantially - for example in the UK "violent crimes" encompasses harassment (without any physical injury) which to most lay people would not strike them as especially "violent". The facts are that in 2010, the US had an average murder rate of 4.8 murders per 100,000 people - 4 times higher than the UK’s rate of 1.2 per 100,000. Likelihood of being killed would seem to me to be a more useful indicator of societal violence. For those that are interested you can read more about these statistics here: http://blog.skepticallibertarian.com/2013/01/12/fact-checking-ben-swann-is-the-uk-really-5-times-more-violent-than-the-us/ http://blog.skepticallibertarian.com/2013/01/12/fact-checkin...

robotresearcher 13y ago

"emergency treatment" is not the same as the parent's "treated". Patching me up is not the same as taking care of my health. You seem to be in some kind of denial about the downsides of life in the US. It is great in many ways, but the financial risk of poor health and the gun-related murder rates are not good compared to most developed countries. You can still think it best overall without going out of your way to deny some serious issues.

JshWright 13y ago

> First, a federal law called EMTALA requires hospitals to provide emergency treatment regardless of citizenship or ability to pay. s/hospitals/hospitals that accept payments from medicaid and medicare/

declan 13y ago
Which is only, what, 99% of hospitals?

dragonwriter 13y ago

> First, a federal law called EMTALA requires hospitals to provide emergency treatment regardless of citizenship or ability to pay. Required emergency treatment is just short-term stabilization, it doesn't include the further treatment which may be medically necessary to provide a reasonable chance of good outcomes. This means, approximately, that without ability to pay, your treatment will stop at the point at which you would be admitted to the hospital from the ER.

soperj 13y ago

At no point will I ever have to write a post like this, because I know I(and my family) will be covered. I don't care what your laws say, the fact that someone is in this type of situation at all just isn't right. Especially in the richest country in the world.