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I'm still not sure why Mt. Gox existed in the first place. Isn't the whole point of bitcoin that it is decentralized? The failure of Mt. Gox could be viewed as

I'm still not sure why Mt. Gox existed in the first place. Isn't the whole point of bitcoin that it is decentralized? The failure of Mt. Gox could be viewed as a market reset.

muyuu 13y ago
Exchanges exist because BTC doesn't ban anything. As long as people want to use exchanges there might be exchanges. It's an easy concept really.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
diego 13y ago
Cash is decentralized. That doesn't mean you can obtain it out of thin air. You need to exchange something of value (your work, assets, whatever) for cash. Mt. Gox and other exchanges fulfill that role. No idea what you mean by a "market reset."
- BallinBige 13y ago
  well said. cash is insanely decentralized.
dragonwriter 13y ago
> I'm still not sure why Mt. Gox existed in the first place. Isn't the whole point of bitcoin that it is decentralized? Insofar as the second sentence is true at all, it is in that the issuance and transaction verification of bitcoin and bitcoin transactions is decentralized. That has nothing to do with the role of a centralized exchange in facilitating markets for people exchanging bitcoin for other commodities, like USD.
dcc1 13y ago
Mtgox existed because Only ways to get bitcoin: 1. Mine them (very very hard and getting harder) 2. Get paid in bitcoin for product/service 3. Buy them on an exchange for fiat 4. Be given bitcoin by early adopters Until its possible to get paid (salaries), pay suppliers, pay taxes etc the exchanges are needed to convert traditional currency to bitcoin and vice versa. Anyways the writing was on the wall for a long time, i stopped using them over a year ago, bitstamp are professional while mtgox were amateur cowboys with no support.
- zeckalpha 13y ago
  Isn't number 3 just a variation of number 4, with a middleman? That's all I mean. Can't software exist for individual early adopters to sell their coin in exchange for fiat at market values without a centralized exchange? To me, it seems like centralized exchange just leads to collapse.
  - nwatson 13y ago
    Not all early adopters will want to sell. Heirs to their estate will ... which is why in the next 40 years there will be a few floods of bitcoin supply to deal with.
    - zeckalpha 13y ago
      If that is the case, where does the exchange get its coin?
  - dcc1 13y ago
    There is work being done on distributed exchange, the problem is quite difficult tho, I believe there is an exchange in germany that works quite well and users pay by bank transfer between each other (sepa transfers are cheap or free) There is also localbitcoin some people used mtgox to trade, but I can not understand why since their fees were high, trading engine slow and buggy and well there are better alternatives
  - dragonwriter 13y ago
    > Can't software exist for individual early adopters to sell their coin in exchange for fiat at market values without a centralized exchange? As I see it, the tricky bit without an exchange is (1) establishing a "market price" in the first place, and (2) coordinating the fiat side of the transaction with the cryptocurrency side (the same problem exists between two different cryptocurrencies with different networks) so that the two either succeed or fail together.
- corresation 13y ago
  bitstamp are professional while mtgox were amateur cowboys with no support. This is all so clear now, it seems. Further, Bitstamp was bitten by exactly the same bug (the malleability bug which was apparently what demonstrated Gox's purported cluelessness, and which I highly doubt was the cause of MtGox's apparent failure). Unless there was an independent audit by a third party, why should you trust that they won't fall victim to exactly the same issue?

I'm still not sure why Mt. Gox existed in the first place. Isn't the whole point of bitcoin that it is decentralized? The failure of Mt. Gox could be viewed as a market reset.

muyuu 13y ago

Exchanges exist because BTC doesn't ban anything. As long as people want to use exchanges there might be exchanges. It's an easy concept really.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

diego 13y ago

Cash is decentralized. That doesn't mean you can obtain it out of thin air. You need to exchange something of value (your work, assets, whatever) for cash. Mt. Gox and other exchanges fulfill that role. No idea what you mean by a "market reset."

BallinBige 13y ago
well said. cash is insanely decentralized.

dragonwriter 13y ago

> I'm still not sure why Mt. Gox existed in the first place. Isn't the whole point of bitcoin that it is decentralized? Insofar as the second sentence is true at all, it is in that the issuance and transaction verification of bitcoin and bitcoin transactions is decentralized. That has nothing to do with the role of a centralized exchange in facilitating markets for people exchanging bitcoin for other commodities, like USD.

dcc1 13y ago

Mtgox existed because Only ways to get bitcoin: 1. Mine them (very very hard and getting harder) 2. Get paid in bitcoin for product/service 3. Buy them on an exchange for fiat 4. Be given bitcoin by early adopters Until its possible to get paid (salaries), pay suppliers, pay taxes etc the exchanges are needed to convert traditional currency to bitcoin and vice versa. Anyways the writing was on the wall for a long time, i stopped using them over a year ago, bitstamp are professional while mtgox were amateur cowboys with no support.

zeckalpha 13y ago
Isn't number 3 just a variation of number 4, with a middleman? That's all I mean. Can't software exist for individual early adopters to sell their coin in exchange for fiat at market values without a centralized exchange? To me, it seems like centralized exchange just leads to collapse.
- nwatson 13y ago
  Not all early adopters will want to sell. Heirs to their estate will ... which is why in the next 40 years there will be a few floods of bitcoin supply to deal with.
  - zeckalpha 13y ago
    If that is the case, where does the exchange get its coin?
- dcc1 13y ago
  There is work being done on distributed exchange, the problem is quite difficult tho, I believe there is an exchange in germany that works quite well and users pay by bank transfer between each other (sepa transfers are cheap or free) There is also localbitcoin some people used mtgox to trade, but I can not understand why since their fees were high, trading engine slow and buggy and well there are better alternatives
- dragonwriter 13y ago
  > Can't software exist for individual early adopters to sell their coin in exchange for fiat at market values without a centralized exchange? As I see it, the tricky bit without an exchange is (1) establishing a "market price" in the first place, and (2) coordinating the fiat side of the transaction with the cryptocurrency side (the same problem exists between two different cryptocurrencies with different networks) so that the two either succeed or fail together.
corresation 13y ago
bitstamp are professional while mtgox were amateur cowboys with no support. This is all so clear now, it seems. Further, Bitstamp was bitten by exactly the same bug (the malleability bug which was apparently what demonstrated Gox's purported cluelessness, and which I highly doubt was the cause of MtGox's apparent failure). Unless there was an independent audit by a third party, why should you trust that they won't fall victim to exactly the same issue?