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Bitcoin has different kinds of risk, i.e. the risk of having your coin stolen. That's a much better and easier to manage risk than the risk of having someone k

Bitcoin has different kinds of risk, i.e. the risk of having your coin stolen. That's a much better and easier to manage risk than the risk of having someone keep making charges to your card because of an inherently flawed pull based system. Or the risk of having to give every vendor you deal with your personal information and card number. The risk of trusting that those vendors have good security practices.

maxerickson 13y ago
Leaks of personal information are only painful because the CC processors don't bother much with security. If they start paying attention, leaks will only get less painful. With Bitcoin, you either have to trust a third party to supervise your transactions or have a really solid understanding of the protocol. And you have to be very security conscious to handle more than a few coins. Anyway, like I said, time will tell.
- gnaritas 13y ago
  > Leaks of personal information are only painful because the CC processors don't bother much with security. False, leaks of personal information are possible because every single vendor is required to secure that information since they're the ones collecting it. This has nothing to do with card processors. > With Bitcoin, you either have to trust a third party to supervise your transactions or have a really solid understanding of the protocol. And you have to be very security conscious to handle more than a few coins. With dollars, you either have to trust a third party to supervise your transactions and store your wealth. And you have to be very security conscious to handle more than a few thousand dollars if you don't use a bank. That last statement basically says nothing; with both you either use a third party to store your wealth or you secure it yourself. This is not interesting information.
  - maxerickson 13y ago
    I didn't say leaks of personal information were not possible or would become less possible, I asserted that the credit card system can be improved to be less sensitive to the leaks. This is obviously true. You're right that dollars are still hard to manage, but I trust Amex a whole hell of a lot more than I trust Coinbase (and to be clear, that's the problem bitcoin has to solve, getting trust from normals). I realize there will be disagreement about such assessments.
    - gnaritas 13y ago
      > This is obviously true. No it isn't because the leaks don't come from the credit card system; they come from vendors and it's not possible to make every vendor secure. PCI is an industry joke, everyone knows it; Target wasn't even compliant. > but I trust Amex a whole hell of a lot more than I trust Coinbase Yes, but you're ignoring the best option, trust no one, keep your own coins. The whole point of a peer to peer system is that you don't have to rely on a third party to keep your stuff. > (and to be clear, that's the problem bitcoin has to solve, getting trust from normals). I realize there will be disagreement about such assessments. I do disagree because normal's simply aren't necessary for bitcoin's success; it's already useful enough and used enough to be considered successful as a means of international payment and transfer of wealth. As a commodity, normals will be investing in it without even knowing it as soon as the ETF's hit Wall Street, so their explicit trust simply isn't required.
      - maxerickson 13y ago
        The reason leaks matter is because the credit card system uses magic numbers and later looks to see that everyone is okay with the transactions they list. They can move away from this to something with more built in security. That makes leaks matter less. We disagree that managing a bitcoin wallet is a better option than traditional banking. That's fine. edit: That last bit sounds smug now. I don't mean it that way, I mean I don't think we are going to get anywhere going back and forth over it.
        gnaritas 13y ago
        I didn't think it smug.

maxerickson 13y ago

Leaks of personal information are only painful because the CC processors don't bother much with security. If they start paying attention, leaks will only get less painful. With Bitcoin, you either have to trust a third party to supervise your transactions or have a really solid understanding of the protocol. And you have to be very security conscious to handle more than a few coins. Anyway, like I said, time will tell.

gnaritas 13y ago
> Leaks of personal information are only painful because the CC processors don't bother much with security. False, leaks of personal information are possible because every single vendor is required to secure that information since they're the ones collecting it. This has nothing to do with card processors. > With Bitcoin, you either have to trust a third party to supervise your transactions or have a really solid understanding of the protocol. And you have to be very security conscious to handle more than a few coins. With dollars, you either have to trust a third party to supervise your transactions and store your wealth. And you have to be very security conscious to handle more than a few thousand dollars if you don't use a bank. That last statement basically says nothing; with both you either use a third party to store your wealth or you secure it yourself. This is not interesting information.
- maxerickson 13y ago
  I didn't say leaks of personal information were not possible or would become less possible, I asserted that the credit card system can be improved to be less sensitive to the leaks. This is obviously true. You're right that dollars are still hard to manage, but I trust Amex a whole hell of a lot more than I trust Coinbase (and to be clear, that's the problem bitcoin has to solve, getting trust from normals). I realize there will be disagreement about such assessments.
  - gnaritas 13y ago
    > This is obviously true. No it isn't because the leaks don't come from the credit card system; they come from vendors and it's not possible to make every vendor secure. PCI is an industry joke, everyone knows it; Target wasn't even compliant. > but I trust Amex a whole hell of a lot more than I trust Coinbase Yes, but you're ignoring the best option, trust no one, keep your own coins. The whole point of a peer to peer system is that you don't have to rely on a third party to keep your stuff. > (and to be clear, that's the problem bitcoin has to solve, getting trust from normals). I realize there will be disagreement about such assessments. I do disagree because normal's simply aren't necessary for bitcoin's success; it's already useful enough and used enough to be considered successful as a means of international payment and transfer of wealth. As a commodity, normals will be investing in it without even knowing it as soon as the ETF's hit Wall Street, so their explicit trust simply isn't required.
    - maxerickson 13y ago
      The reason leaks matter is because the credit card system uses magic numbers and later looks to see that everyone is okay with the transactions they list. They can move away from this to something with more built in security. That makes leaks matter less. We disagree that managing a bitcoin wallet is a better option than traditional banking. That's fine. edit: That last bit sounds smug now. I don't mean it that way, I mean I don't think we are going to get anywhere going back and forth over it.
      - gnaritas 13y ago
        I didn't think it smug.