4 ms·

Sure, intellectual property "theft" is not actually theft of content. However, it deprives its victim of the ability to monetize and get credit for his/her cre

Sure, intellectual property "theft" is not actually theft of content. However, it deprives its victim of the ability to monetize and get credit for his/her creation. It's "theft" of revenue. You can say that competition does the same thing. We tend to be okay with this because if you can figure out how to write better software or manufacture a better widget and offer it at a lower price, you deserve to win. Writing, producing, and distributing a better movie is completely fair. Beating the studio at distributing the movie it paid to create deprives it of the position in the market which it earned and you didn't. That sounds an awful lot like theft to me.

nawitus 13y ago
Don't redefine theft to mean "unethical" or "creating a inefficient market" or something.
crazygringo 13y ago
The whole point is, don't redefine words. So no, it's still not "theft" of revenue, not even in quotes. If I break into the movie studio's bank account and steal their money, THAT's theft of revenue. Like you say, by your logic, competition has the same effect of reducing a company's revenue, but only a crazy person would call that theft. So STOP calling it theft. Call it unfair competition, call it copyright infringement, call it illegal copying, call it intellectual property violation. There are plenty of correct names for it. Theft is NOT one of them.
- tinalumfoil 13y ago
  Why can't we redefine words? Words are created, generalized and redefined all the time in English. Is it incorrect to say "he stole my idea" because I still have the idea? Maybe at one point this wording was incorrect, but not anymore. As content gets more digitized wouldn't it make sense that to steal be generalized to mean copy/take something without permission instead of just take, especially considering it has already evolved to mean "take credit for something without permission" along with "take without permission"?
  - summerdown2 13y ago
    In this case, redefining the word isn't just language evolving. It's a deliberately political act which many disagree with.
angersock 13y ago
Jesus fucking christ: theft is not causing somebody else to fail to realize a profit. That same logic means that I could be sued for giving away tapwater from my house by anyone selling bottled water.
- tjr 13y ago
  Not really. You own (and paid for) that tap water free and clear.
- superuser2 13y ago
  Piracy is closer to someone running a bottling plant off your house's tap and leaving you to pay the utility bill. You still have your water, but that money's pretty clearly been stolen.
  - angersock 13y ago
    No, that's a bad analogy, because they haven't caused me to fail to realize a revenue. It's also a bad analogy because I have to pay for the water--in file sharing, others are paying the power, bandwidth, and storage costs.
    - superuser2 13y ago
      Appealing to the power/bandwidth/storage costs is a cheap trick and always has been. They are irrelevant. The issue is the cost of creating content. Granted, it's not a continuous scale like water, but rather a massive one-time investment that gets paid off over time. Water is a poor analogy, but this scenario at least captures the fact that party A is incurring a cost and party B is reaping the benefit without compensating A.
      - angersock 13y ago
        Now, one wonders, why is it this massive one-time investment? And does it really make the world a better place that we are catering legally to people with an inefficient business model? (the usual arguments about authorship, creation, and reward ignored for the sake of brevity)
DenisM 13y ago
If one competes unethically, is that stealing? It deprives victim of revenue, and it's unethical, so? If a place of business is vandalized... If bodily harm is caused, depriving victim of wages... If undue emotional distress is caused, depriving victim of wages... Pretty much every single crime causes financial harm to someone, should we just throw away all words and use "stealing" for every offense? Theft of IP. Theft of competitive image. Theft of income-generating properties of equipment, theft of wage-making bodily properties, theft of wage-making mental facility. Theft of life? I say let's keep the proper name for each kind of those things. Libel. Vandalism. Assault. Bullying. Murder. There, much clearer now.
- superuser2 13y ago
  If I run a social engineering attack on your credit card processor so that charges made at your store get paid to my merchant account instead of yours, is that not theft of revenue? It's a similar scenario - you buy the inventory and do the work, I take the revenue. Or, to take my benefit out of the scenario - if I place your CC processor account in sandbox mode so that none of the charges are actually captured?

nawitus 13y ago

Don't redefine theft to mean "unethical" or "creating a inefficient market" or something.

crazygringo 13y ago

The whole point is, don't redefine words. So no, it's still not "theft" of revenue, not even in quotes. If I break into the movie studio's bank account and steal their money, THAT's theft of revenue. Like you say, by your logic, competition has the same effect of reducing a company's revenue, but only a crazy person would call that theft. So STOP calling it theft. Call it unfair competition, call it copyright infringement, call it illegal copying, call it intellectual property violation. There are plenty of correct names for it. Theft is NOT one of them.

tinalumfoil 13y ago
Why can't we redefine words? Words are created, generalized and redefined all the time in English. Is it incorrect to say "he stole my idea" because I still have the idea? Maybe at one point this wording was incorrect, but not anymore. As content gets more digitized wouldn't it make sense that to steal be generalized to mean copy/take something without permission instead of just take, especially considering it has already evolved to mean "take credit for something without permission" along with "take without permission"?
- summerdown2 13y ago
  In this case, redefining the word isn't just language evolving. It's a deliberately political act which many disagree with.

angersock 13y ago

Jesus fucking christ: theft is not causing somebody else to fail to realize a profit. That same logic means that I could be sued for giving away tapwater from my house by anyone selling bottled water.

tjr 13y ago
Not really. You own (and paid for) that tap water free and clear.
superuser2 13y ago
Piracy is closer to someone running a bottling plant off your house's tap and leaving you to pay the utility bill. You still have your water, but that money's pretty clearly been stolen.
- angersock 13y ago
  No, that's a bad analogy, because they haven't caused me to fail to realize a revenue. It's also a bad analogy because I have to pay for the water--in file sharing, others are paying the power, bandwidth, and storage costs.
  - superuser2 13y ago
    Appealing to the power/bandwidth/storage costs is a cheap trick and always has been. They are irrelevant. The issue is the cost of creating content. Granted, it's not a continuous scale like water, but rather a massive one-time investment that gets paid off over time. Water is a poor analogy, but this scenario at least captures the fact that party A is incurring a cost and party B is reaping the benefit without compensating A.
    - angersock 13y ago
      Now, one wonders, why is it this massive one-time investment? And does it really make the world a better place that we are catering legally to people with an inefficient business model? (the usual arguments about authorship, creation, and reward ignored for the sake of brevity)

DenisM 13y ago

If one competes unethically, is that stealing? It deprives victim of revenue, and it's unethical, so? If a place of business is vandalized... If bodily harm is caused, depriving victim of wages... If undue emotional distress is caused, depriving victim of wages... Pretty much every single crime causes financial harm to someone, should we just throw away all words and use "stealing" for every offense? Theft of IP. Theft of competitive image. Theft of income-generating properties of equipment, theft of wage-making bodily properties, theft of wage-making mental facility. Theft of life? I say let's keep the proper name for each kind of those things. Libel. Vandalism. Assault. Bullying. Murder. There, much clearer now.

superuser2 13y ago
If I run a social engineering attack on your credit card processor so that charges made at your store get paid to my merchant account instead of yours, is that not theft of revenue? It's a similar scenario - you buy the inventory and do the work, I take the revenue. Or, to take my benefit out of the scenario - if I place your CC processor account in sandbox mode so that none of the charges are actually captured?