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it doesn't really matter if the job is good or crap. the guy that hires you already thinks you're crap, and why would you care about some job they outsource to

it doesn't really matter if the job is good or crap. the guy that hires you already thinks you're crap, and why would you care about some job they outsource to you because they don't even want to pay minimum wage? you don't think that value comes across exactly that way? that said indians have a major cultural problem. they're way too nice, and they're also way too enduring, and they find other ways to vent that. when i was in the US they were putting their shit on the indians, because they knew that since they really wanted to stay in the US they would endure all the shit, and not talk back. some of these people got dumped on their 6th year, because that's when the employer has to decide on whether they sponsor a green card or just get a new one. odesk encourages crap, because the people that come there generally don't think hey i'll get an awesome guy on there who i can't find in my environment. they think hey my project is super easy anyway. i'll get a cheap dude to build exactly what i want. don't get me wrong i know some really good developers, and employers on odesk(well truth be told it's just 1 of either). but they're there no doubt. what disgusted me the most was that the guy i was working with (who used odesk to get cheap developers) was thinking that he was doing them a favor. he thought of himself of some kind of savior, because he was helping indians so much.

eklavya 13y ago
Well the culture is really really diverse to cast into a single type. You have to be extra nice AND enduring when there are 100s more like you wanting the same job. The only way out of it is to make yourself better so the competition isn't as fierce or just bend over and take it all in.
Nursie 13y ago
>> that said indians have a major cultural problem. they're way too nice, and they're also way too enduring, and they find other ways to vent that. When I've dealt with teams in India (rather than Indian folk in western nations) I've had problems with this. It's not niceness, it's being non-confrontational. To excess. When you ask if they understand (so you could offer help or training on a technical question, for example) it's "yes, certainly". And then a week later you get the email saying no progress has been made because they don't understand something. It's irritating.
- ChuckMcM 13y ago
  One of the really hard things about setting up the Bangalore office for NetApp was getting around people unwilling to confront their managers (which is taken as a given in the US). One of the engineers created a game of 'spot the crap' which was basically sets of statements where one was bogus. And trying to reward/incent people for identifying it and raising it. Although, when the collapse finally comes, and you've just accused someone of lying about understanding and they finally come clean and it walks all the way back to a guy they paid in school to help with their CS classes, then you can start to make progress. I was not in the office but the stories I heard of people being scared of being fired because they didn't "know" something were rampant. NetApp really tried to amplify the message that saying you knew when you didn't was a more egregious affront than saying you didn't know.
  - kamaal 13y ago
    Sorry Chuck, I don't think you understand our culture here. I stay in Bangalore. Never visited any country. I was born and raised in Bangalore. I've stayed here in Bangalore all my life. >>getting around people unwilling to confront their managers Almost every time I've tried to do this, I've been screwed. The only option after that even I have is to go work under a different manager. You really have to play nice, actually that's putting in mildly. You have to show super sycophancy towards your manager, if you want anything that looks like a raise, promotion or a foreign travel. Often you are just screwed if you don't belong to your manager's state, or don't speak his mother tongue. I've been pulled up and scolded inside meeting rooms even for mild and faint feedback, let alone direct confrontation. Some times in the line of 'You don't want me as your enemy'. That's one big reason why Indian IT is such deep irrecoverable mess. Good people get nothing, have no scope for growth. If you are good its assumed you are going to sacrifice your life working for everybody. To get anything you have to be a super sycophant. Or belong to your manager's state or speak his/her mother tongue. So the only option for good people here is: 1. Immigrate to a western country. Get treated like crap. If you are luck you might get citizenship in a decade or two. Else get ready to go through putting up with crap for years. 2. Work in smaller teams of your mindset and do a start up.

eklavya 13y ago

Well the culture is really really diverse to cast into a single type. You have to be extra nice AND enduring when there are 100s more like you wanting the same job. The only way out of it is to make yourself better so the competition isn't as fierce or just bend over and take it all in.

Nursie 13y ago

>> that said indians have a major cultural problem. they're way too nice, and they're also way too enduring, and they find other ways to vent that. When I've dealt with teams in India (rather than Indian folk in western nations) I've had problems with this. It's not niceness, it's being non-confrontational. To excess. When you ask if they understand (so you could offer help or training on a technical question, for example) it's "yes, certainly". And then a week later you get the email saying no progress has been made because they don't understand something. It's irritating.

ChuckMcM 13y ago
One of the really hard things about setting up the Bangalore office for NetApp was getting around people unwilling to confront their managers (which is taken as a given in the US). One of the engineers created a game of 'spot the crap' which was basically sets of statements where one was bogus. And trying to reward/incent people for identifying it and raising it. Although, when the collapse finally comes, and you've just accused someone of lying about understanding and they finally come clean and it walks all the way back to a guy they paid in school to help with their CS classes, then you can start to make progress. I was not in the office but the stories I heard of people being scared of being fired because they didn't "know" something were rampant. NetApp really tried to amplify the message that saying you knew when you didn't was a more egregious affront than saying you didn't know.
- kamaal 13y ago
  Sorry Chuck, I don't think you understand our culture here. I stay in Bangalore. Never visited any country. I was born and raised in Bangalore. I've stayed here in Bangalore all my life. >>getting around people unwilling to confront their managers Almost every time I've tried to do this, I've been screwed. The only option after that even I have is to go work under a different manager. You really have to play nice, actually that's putting in mildly. You have to show super sycophancy towards your manager, if you want anything that looks like a raise, promotion or a foreign travel. Often you are just screwed if you don't belong to your manager's state, or don't speak his mother tongue. I've been pulled up and scolded inside meeting rooms even for mild and faint feedback, let alone direct confrontation. Some times in the line of 'You don't want me as your enemy'. That's one big reason why Indian IT is such deep irrecoverable mess. Good people get nothing, have no scope for growth. If you are good its assumed you are going to sacrifice your life working for everybody. To get anything you have to be a super sycophant. Or belong to your manager's state or speak his/her mother tongue. So the only option for good people here is: 1. Immigrate to a western country. Get treated like crap. If you are luck you might get citizenship in a decade or two. Else get ready to go through putting up with crap for years. 2. Work in smaller teams of your mindset and do a start up.