4 ms·

It was more of a shared, collective kind of property model. People generally knew which things that people had and who currently had it. Generally, one would

by ap22213 13y ago

It was more of a shared, collective kind of property model. People generally knew which things that people had and who currently had it. Generally, one would 'borrow' a thing indefinitely, until someone else 'borrowed' it. It wasn't uncommon for someone to 'borrow' a car, for example. You would just take it, if you needed it. It worked well, in that small culture of people. But, it certainly presented a lot of challenges for me as I left that area. It took me a long time to learn that that wasn't accepted behavior for middle-class urban people. For example, in college, people would come to my dorm, and I'd give them my stuff, not expecting that I'd get it back. Tensions would flare up when I'd 'borrow' other kids' stuff and then lend their stuff out to others. It took me awhile to understand that that was frowned upon. I also had to learn that I couldn't just take stuff. I was used to going to other people's houses and just eating their food, taking video games, music, etc. - Yeah, the middle-class urbanites didn't like that very much. Even now, I have strange understandings of property. I'm very likely to just give my stuff away, to even people that I don't know very well. Most people who witness this think it is very, very odd.

driverdan 13y ago
Are you sure you didn't come from a family of thieves? Have you discussed this with other members of your community, especially law enforcement?
jofer 13y ago
It's quite common in rural areas. I grew up in west TN, and the exact same sort of situation exists there. I've lived in Alaska for a bit, and it's ubiquitous there. (e.g. you _never_ lock a cabin, as someone might need to get in) A good example is chainsaws. Where I'm from, you heat with wood. Therefore, having a functioning chainsaw is a necessity. New chainsaws (or good ones, anyway) are fairly expensive, so you invariably have several ancient ones around that you're coaxing into functional shape. When you don't have anything working, you just go to a neighbor and borrow one. If someone asks for one, you loan them one that's working, even if it's the one you borrowed from your neighbor. The point being, you owe someone "a functioning chainsaw", not "that particular saw". It's effectively a communal pool of tools. To this day my parents usually don't pay when they buy groceries. They just write their name on the back of the receipt and pay the accumulated bill whenever they get around to it. Just a few years ago, nowhere took credit cards, so the stores all extended credit that way. People need to eat, and often don't have cash until the end/start of the month. Similarly, it's changed now, but growing up, the gas station left its pumps on at night. If you needed gas after the station was closed, you just pumped it and dropped in the next day to pay the bill. At any rate, you're very aware that you're a part of a community, even if your nearest neighbor is several miles away. People are fiercely independent and individualistic, but resources are treated somewhat communally. Of course, a lot of that is changing, but it's more true the more you move towards the "fringes" of society, in my experience. I knew folks who kept someone posted on the ridge to shoot at any car they didn't recognize (the sheriff literally called first when they had to respond to something or serve a warrant). At lot of methheads and a lot of folks on the run, but you'd never think twice about loaning them your truck or saw.
- angersock 13y ago
  That sounds really nice, actually. So, where does it fall over?
  - jofer 13y ago
    It falls over as soon as people stop trusting each other. As soon as you get to the point where you don't know everyone, folks get less trusting. People function very well in "village-sized" groups, in my experience, and there's a big change in behavior as soon as you get to the point where you don't "know" everyone. (Behavior doesn't necessarily change in a bad way, but there is a big change.) Or that's my $0.02, at any rate.
- summerdown2 13y ago
  From what I can work out from David Graeber's book "Debt," that approach is the way the economy used to function before money was invented - a trail of mutual help and obligation.

by ap22213 13y ago

driverdan 13y ago

Are you sure you didn't come from a family of thieves? Have you discussed this with other members of your community, especially law enforcement?

jofer 13y ago

It's quite common in rural areas. I grew up in west TN, and the exact same sort of situation exists there. I've lived in Alaska for a bit, and it's ubiquitous there. (e.g. you _never_ lock a cabin, as someone might need to get in) A good example is chainsaws. Where I'm from, you heat with wood. Therefore, having a functioning chainsaw is a necessity. New chainsaws (or good ones, anyway) are fairly expensive, so you invariably have several ancient ones around that you're coaxing into functional shape. When you don't have anything working, you just go to a neighbor and borrow one. If someone asks for one, you loan them one that's working, even if it's the one you borrowed from your neighbor. The point being, you owe someone "a functioning chainsaw", not "that particular saw". It's effectively a communal pool of tools. To this day my parents usually don't pay when they buy groceries. They just write their name on the back of the receipt and pay the accumulated bill whenever they get around to it. Just a few years ago, nowhere took credit cards, so the stores all extended credit that way. People need to eat, and often don't have cash until the end/start of the month. Similarly, it's changed now, but growing up, the gas station left its pumps on at night. If you needed gas after the station was closed, you just pumped it and dropped in the next day to pay the bill. At any rate, you're very aware that you're a part of a community, even if your nearest neighbor is several miles away. People are fiercely independent and individualistic, but resources are treated somewhat communally. Of course, a lot of that is changing, but it's more true the more you move towards the "fringes" of society, in my experience. I knew folks who kept someone posted on the ridge to shoot at any car they didn't recognize (the sheriff literally called first when they had to respond to something or serve a warrant). At lot of methheads and a lot of folks on the run, but you'd never think twice about loaning them your truck or saw.

angersock 13y ago
That sounds really nice, actually. So, where does it fall over?
- jofer 13y ago
  It falls over as soon as people stop trusting each other. As soon as you get to the point where you don't know everyone, folks get less trusting. People function very well in "village-sized" groups, in my experience, and there's a big change in behavior as soon as you get to the point where you don't "know" everyone. (Behavior doesn't necessarily change in a bad way, but there is a big change.) Or that's my $0.02, at any rate.
summerdown2 13y ago
From what I can work out from David Graeber's book "Debt," that approach is the way the economy used to function before money was invented - a trail of mutual help and obligation.