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In my opinion HTML/CSS/JavaScript is the best interface design technology ever invented. I believe it gets a lot of hate because: 1) Amateurs can use it easily

In my opinion HTML/CSS/JavaScript is the best interface design technology ever invented. I believe it gets a lot of hate because: 1) Amateurs can use it easily and poorly 2) It is not taught in computer science class 3) HTML/CSS is not programming 4) HTML docs attempt to be responsive/liquid as opposed to traditional screen painters. These are actually good things (and #2 can be fixed) but they represent a significant philosophical shift that most traditional developers don't want to accept.

goggles99 13y ago
If XAML some open source project made by some hippie group of developers, HTML/JAVASCRIPT/CSS would be in the toilet today. It is miles ahead of the barely moving technologies held back by the standards committees.
- mercurial 13y ago
  I'm not sure where you are going with that, but if you think you're going to convince millions of people to rewrite their websites because $NEW_TECH is now on the market, think again.
  - CmonDev 13y ago
    He is politely giving an example of a superior mark-up language. Just because developers are effectively forced to eat shit we shouldn't pretend it's a piece of a nice cake. Things like angu-bootstrap-whatever are just a thin layer of icing on the top of a big pile of manure.
    - mercurial 13y ago
      That's not what parent is saying. Parent is claiming that the only thing preventing us from welcoming our new XAML overlord is that it's made by Microsoft and not an "open source" project made by "some hippie group of developers". That's hogwash.
      - goggles99 13y ago
        Is it??? A guaranteed prerequisite to next advancement in web tech is certainly that it does not come out of one of those 'evil corporations'...
        mercurial 13y ago
        It's hogwash because nobody is going to invest billions to remake the Internet with a non-backward compatible technology, wherever said technology comes from.
      - deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
TheZenPsycho 13y ago
you'd think if something were the most successful content platform since the invention of movable type, the scientific approach would be to figure out why, instead of trying to destroy it.
- pekk 13y ago
  Please breathe, nobody is "destroying" anything.
  - TheZenPsycho 13y ago
    of course not. you can't despite how much you might want to, and I think a lot of people here do.
- ChrisAntaki 13y ago
  One huge benefit of HTML/CSS/JS is this: you are downloading the actual source code. This allows different platforms to interpret it as they will. It also allows developers to learn from each other in an open way. Of course, it allows for security audits as well, since JavaScript can be profiled. Overall, it's the most communicative form of programming.
rimantas 13y ago
I am an expert in web technology (approaching 15 years of experience) and I absolutely disagree that that's is the best we have. Edit: damn, it is more than 15 years already. I've brought home the first HTML spec printout in 1996 and got first money for the website I've built in 1998. Still remember fixing <center> bug in IE3 when it came out…
- chris_mahan 13y ago
  I used the web in 1993, in the fall, with mosaic, and grey backgrounds. On a 286. With windows 3.1, and 16 colors. So that makes it 20 years. (dangit!) Anyway, I think javascript made a mess of it. The point of the web was to link documents. JS makes links obsolete, as they now are relegated to JS-app entry points. before I get too much in the weeds, I'm gonna go read the article.
  - zachrose 13y ago
    Shouldn't calling something "obsolete" mean it's no longer compatible or practical? Links work! They will always work!
  - cgrand-net 13y ago
    The problem is not that JS is worst than links or forms. It's the most potent hypermedia technique (code-on-demand) but it lays behind the Turing horizon: you can't statically determine what it's doing.
- rybosome 13y ago
  What do you feel is the best that we have? I'm not preparing to raise an argument, merely asking for information. My own experience with user interface development outside of the web is pretty limited; I've created a few winform apps and done some OpenGL stuff in college, but that's basically it. Compared to those, I prefer the web stack.
  - TheZenPsycho 13y ago
    I don't know about rimantas but I really wish CSS would adopt Cassowary like Apple adopted for Cocoa Autolayout. Way better than flexbox. Cassowary is hands down the best tech for interfaces.
cwyers 13y ago
Well, or it gets hate because you have to code for multiple competing implementations that aren't good at interoperability.
m3mnoch 13y ago
> In my opinion HTML/CSS/JavaScript is the best interface design technology ever invented i thoroughly agree with this if you say "interface implementation technology" instead of "interface design technology". i also believe anyone who disagrees has never fully explored the various print/console/mobile/mfc/actionscript worlds. i mean... have you ever even USED something like pagemaker?
andrewflnr 13y ago
There is a very large, important difference between "best ever invented (so far)" and "best possible".
pjmlp 13y ago
> In my opinion HTML/CSS/JavaScript is the best interface design technology ever invented. Given my experience with the dozens of UI frameworks we enjoyed since the early 80's I cannot agree. It cannot be called anything else other than a big hack.

goggles99 13y ago

If XAML some open source project made by some hippie group of developers, HTML/JAVASCRIPT/CSS would be in the toilet today. It is miles ahead of the barely moving technologies held back by the standards committees.

mercurial 13y ago
I'm not sure where you are going with that, but if you think you're going to convince millions of people to rewrite their websites because $NEW_TECH is now on the market, think again.
- CmonDev 13y ago
  He is politely giving an example of a superior mark-up language. Just because developers are effectively forced to eat shit we shouldn't pretend it's a piece of a nice cake. Things like angu-bootstrap-whatever are just a thin layer of icing on the top of a big pile of manure.
  - mercurial 13y ago
    That's not what parent is saying. Parent is claiming that the only thing preventing us from welcoming our new XAML overlord is that it's made by Microsoft and not an "open source" project made by "some hippie group of developers". That's hogwash.
    - goggles99 13y ago
      Is it??? A guaranteed prerequisite to next advancement in web tech is certainly that it does not come out of one of those 'evil corporations'...
      - mercurial 13y ago
        It's hogwash because nobody is going to invest billions to remake the Internet with a non-backward compatible technology, wherever said technology comes from.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]

TheZenPsycho 13y ago

you'd think if something were the most successful content platform since the invention of movable type, the scientific approach would be to figure out why, instead of trying to destroy it.

pekk 13y ago
Please breathe, nobody is "destroying" anything.
- TheZenPsycho 13y ago
  of course not. you can't despite how much you might want to, and I think a lot of people here do.
ChrisAntaki 13y ago
One huge benefit of HTML/CSS/JS is this: you are downloading the actual source code. This allows different platforms to interpret it as they will. It also allows developers to learn from each other in an open way. Of course, it allows for security audits as well, since JavaScript can be profiled. Overall, it's the most communicative form of programming.

rimantas 13y ago

I am an expert in web technology (approaching 15 years of experience) and I absolutely disagree that that's is the best we have. Edit: damn, it is more than 15 years already. I've brought home the first HTML spec printout in 1996 and got first money for the website I've built in 1998. Still remember fixing <center> bug in IE3 when it came out…

chris_mahan 13y ago
I used the web in 1993, in the fall, with mosaic, and grey backgrounds. On a 286. With windows 3.1, and 16 colors. So that makes it 20 years. (dangit!) Anyway, I think javascript made a mess of it. The point of the web was to link documents. JS makes links obsolete, as they now are relegated to JS-app entry points. before I get too much in the weeds, I'm gonna go read the article.
- zachrose 13y ago
  Shouldn't calling something "obsolete" mean it's no longer compatible or practical? Links work! They will always work!
- cgrand-net 13y ago
  The problem is not that JS is worst than links or forms. It's the most potent hypermedia technique (code-on-demand) but it lays behind the Turing horizon: you can't statically determine what it's doing.
rybosome 13y ago
What do you feel is the best that we have? I'm not preparing to raise an argument, merely asking for information. My own experience with user interface development outside of the web is pretty limited; I've created a few winform apps and done some OpenGL stuff in college, but that's basically it. Compared to those, I prefer the web stack.
- TheZenPsycho 13y ago
  I don't know about rimantas but I really wish CSS would adopt Cassowary like Apple adopted for Cocoa Autolayout. Way better than flexbox. Cassowary is hands down the best tech for interfaces.

cwyers 13y ago

Well, or it gets hate because you have to code for multiple competing implementations that aren't good at interoperability.

m3mnoch 13y ago

> In my opinion HTML/CSS/JavaScript is the best interface design technology ever invented i thoroughly agree with this if you say "interface implementation technology" instead of "interface design technology". i also believe anyone who disagrees has never fully explored the various print/console/mobile/mfc/actionscript worlds. i mean... have you ever even USED something like pagemaker?

andrewflnr 13y ago

There is a very large, important difference between "best ever invented (so far)" and "best possible".

pjmlp 13y ago

> In my opinion HTML/CSS/JavaScript is the best interface design technology ever invented. Given my experience with the dozens of UI frameworks we enjoyed since the early 80's I cannot agree. It cannot be called anything else other than a big hack.