4 ms·

It's unfortunate that many people here seem to think that success is something achieved in single step, as if one day he wakes up and cancels his food stamps be

by paul 13y ago

It's unfortunate that many people here seem to think that success is something achieved in single step, as if one day he wakes up and cancels his food stamps because he's suddenly a billionaire. This is a very debilitating attitude, and it prevents people from doing what is necessary to get to the next step. It will take years, and possibly generations, but it will never happen if you are expecting it to be an overnight thing.

thecage411 13y ago
Yes! Your quote reminded me of Jaime Escalante, the calculus teacher portrayed in Stand and Deliver. In the movie, he teaches some completely unprepared kids calculus and they pass the AP exam. In real life, he taught for years and set up feeder programs so the students would be ready. More here: http://reason.com/archives/2002/07/01/stand-and-deliver-revisited http://reason.com/archives/2002/07/01/stand-and-deliver-revi...
- paul 13y ago
  That's a great story, with a rather tragic ending. Everyone should read it.
- strlen 13y ago
  >> Escalante's open admission policy, a major reason for his success, also paved the way for his departure. Calculus grew so popular at Garfield that classes grew beyond the 35-student limit set by the union contract. Some had more than 50 students. Escalante would have preferred to keep the classes below the limit had he been able to do so without either denying calculus to willing students or using teachers who were not up to his high standards. Neither was possible, and the teachers union complained about Garfield's class sizes. Rather than compromise, Escalante moved on. When I say (to non-Californians) that teacher's unions have too much power in California and am accused of being a right-wing wacko, I generally call this example out. Unions have been responsible for much good (better working conditions, higher pay, etc...) but that doesn't give them a pass to screw students over.
  - 10feet 13y ago
    So what size classes should someone have stepped in? 70? 100? Not to mention that having so many in a class was probably a H&S hazard. It seems more Escalante was the one not prepared to compromise in this instance. This is exactly the sort of thing unions should step in to solve, so you will have to find another example of why unions are not all good. There are plenty out there.
  - wwweston 13y ago
    There's a lot one could learn about problems with various institutions involved in public education from Escalante's story, but this probably isn't a strong example of unions run amok. It's generally accepted that smaller class sizes help with educational outcomes (as well as teacher morale/quality of life), so it's not only understandable that there would be some agreed-on class size limit, it's arguably professional. From the accounts I've read, the class size limit was pretty far from the most significant tension involved. Local Garfield administration and politics seem to have been. The principal under which Escalante's program flourished (Henry Gradillas) was a big contributor to the success, but even so, he wasn't invited back after a sabbatical, and it's reasonable to speculate that he'd run afoul of the community which employed him when he'd prioritized academics over athletics. Later principals weren't anywhere near as supportive. There was also the professional jealousy that came with Escalante's hollywood fame. You can argue that's petty, but I hope anyone who'd do so from the software world is equally circumspect about any kind of professional jealousy when it comes to the success of approaches you don't subscribe to in the software world. So, yeah. Unions as The Devil is one easy narrative, but it doesn't sit comfortably with the details of the story I'm familiar with.
    - strlen 13y ago
      > The principal under which Escalante's program flourished (Henry Gradillas) was a big contributor to the success, but even so, he wasn't invited back after a sabbatical, and it's reasonable to speculate that he'd run afoul of the community which employed him when he'd prioritized academics over athletics. That's even more heartbreaking to hear. Everyone's opinion seemed to have matter, except that of the students, whose careers and educations were at stake.

by paul 13y ago

thecage411 13y ago

Yes! Your quote reminded me of Jaime Escalante, the calculus teacher portrayed in Stand and Deliver. In the movie, he teaches some completely unprepared kids calculus and they pass the AP exam. In real life, he taught for years and set up feeder programs so the students would be ready. More here: http://reason.com/archives/2002/07/01/stand-and-deliver-revisited http://reason.com/archives/2002/07/01/stand-and-deliver-revi...

paul 13y ago
That's a great story, with a rather tragic ending. Everyone should read it.
strlen 13y ago
>> Escalante's open admission policy, a major reason for his success, also paved the way for his departure. Calculus grew so popular at Garfield that classes grew beyond the 35-student limit set by the union contract. Some had more than 50 students. Escalante would have preferred to keep the classes below the limit had he been able to do so without either denying calculus to willing students or using teachers who were not up to his high standards. Neither was possible, and the teachers union complained about Garfield's class sizes. Rather than compromise, Escalante moved on. When I say (to non-Californians) that teacher's unions have too much power in California and am accused of being a right-wing wacko, I generally call this example out. Unions have been responsible for much good (better working conditions, higher pay, etc...) but that doesn't give them a pass to screw students over.
- 10feet 13y ago
  So what size classes should someone have stepped in? 70? 100? Not to mention that having so many in a class was probably a H&S hazard. It seems more Escalante was the one not prepared to compromise in this instance. This is exactly the sort of thing unions should step in to solve, so you will have to find another example of why unions are not all good. There are plenty out there.
- wwweston 13y ago
  There's a lot one could learn about problems with various institutions involved in public education from Escalante's story, but this probably isn't a strong example of unions run amok. It's generally accepted that smaller class sizes help with educational outcomes (as well as teacher morale/quality of life), so it's not only understandable that there would be some agreed-on class size limit, it's arguably professional. From the accounts I've read, the class size limit was pretty far from the most significant tension involved. Local Garfield administration and politics seem to have been. The principal under which Escalante's program flourished (Henry Gradillas) was a big contributor to the success, but even so, he wasn't invited back after a sabbatical, and it's reasonable to speculate that he'd run afoul of the community which employed him when he'd prioritized academics over athletics. Later principals weren't anywhere near as supportive. There was also the professional jealousy that came with Escalante's hollywood fame. You can argue that's petty, but I hope anyone who'd do so from the software world is equally circumspect about any kind of professional jealousy when it comes to the success of approaches you don't subscribe to in the software world. So, yeah. Unions as The Devil is one easy narrative, but it doesn't sit comfortably with the details of the story I'm familiar with.
  - strlen 13y ago
    > The principal under which Escalante's program flourished (Henry Gradillas) was a big contributor to the success, but even so, he wasn't invited back after a sabbatical, and it's reasonable to speculate that he'd run afoul of the community which employed him when he'd prioritized academics over athletics. That's even more heartbreaking to hear. Everyone's opinion seemed to have matter, except that of the students, whose careers and educations were at stake.