4 ms·

So, the Bitcoin community is calling for regulation?

krapp 13y ago
Revolutions stop being fun when you're the one who's bleeding...
jey 13y ago
Why must that require regulation? They're calling for a meme that informed actors probably wouldn't do business with exchanges that don't provide those "requirements".
- olefoo 13y ago
  That's regulations with a multilateral peer enforcement mechanism. Conveniently enough it serves as a barrier to entry to new competitors. So if you were wanting to start a bitcoin exchange, you may have missed the boat.
  - dantheman 13y ago
    It's not regulation, it's best practices. You can choose to work with someoone who does them or not. Regulation takes that choice away.
clamprecht 13y ago
It sounds like self-regulation. If exchanges would just prove solvency periodically (which is possible with the blockchain), the whole world could see it. Wouldn't it be nice if you could see the balance sheet of your bank, in a way that accountants couldn't lie about it?
- rdtsc 13y ago
  > It sounds like self-regulation. Because that has worked wonders for the other industries -- let's have pharma companies, oil, food producers, just self regulate.
  - dmm 13y ago
    There are historical instances of self-regulation working. The movie and video game industries control their own content ratings and before the invention of dynamite, nitroglycerin was commonly used as an explosive in construction. Shipping NG is very dangerous because of its instability and many accidents occurred. They industry eventually developed extensive standards regarding shipping that vastly improved the safety of shipping NG.
    - eropple 13y ago
      > movie and video game industries control their own content ratings Not sure you're helping yourself here. The established movie industry uses its content rating system as a bludgeon against independent filmmakers. The video game industry's content controls are largely a joke, assigned arbitrarily by people who never actually play the game.
      - bduerst 13y ago
        How are movie ratings used as a bludgeon against independent filmmakers?
        br78 13y ago
        I'm sorry it's not an easy source to access, but you should watch this film http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Film_Is_Not_Yet_Rated http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Film_Is_Not_Yet_Rated
        dagw 13y ago
        Short version: Most cinemas and other outlets in the US won't carry your movie if it's unrated, so in effect those who control the ratings control which movies can get distributed. Also most cinemas in the US won't show NC17 rated movies so the ratings people can also use that as a way to prevent your movie being shown to a large cinema audience if they want to.
    - venomsnake 13y ago
- rahimnathwani 13y ago
  prove solvency periodically Solvency, the ability to pay what you owe people when it falls due, is easy to prove at any point in time. The state of insolvency occurs the first time you have an obligation to pay, which you cannot satisfy. The thing is, if you're a de facto bank (by virtue of holding customer demand deposits) then your future expectations of solvency could turn out to be wrong because everyone wants their money at the same time (i.e. there's a bank run).
  - jasomill 13y ago
    MtGox isn't supposed to be a fractional-reserve Bitcoin bank, so, modulo server capacity problems and modest transaction delays due to offline Bitcoin storage, why, in principle, should everyone wanting their Bitcoins at the same time pose a problem?
    - rahimnathwani 13y ago
      You are right. My point about solvency was a general one (applying to all people and companies) but I overlooked an important point: the Bitcoins entrusted by customers to MtGox do not become MtGox assets. The Bitcoins are always owned by the customer (not owed to the customer). They are less like bank deposits than they are the contents of safety deposit boxes at a bank branch.
  - icebraining 13y ago
    The idea is that they would prove their solvency for the hypothetical event of everyone wanting their money back at the same time.
- dfc 13y ago
  > Wouldn't it be nice if you could see the balance sheet of your bank, in a way that accountants couldn't lie about it? I don't think it would be a big "feature" for me. As far as confidence in my bank goes the big thing is the FDIC sticker on the door/website.
  - judk 13y ago
    Ah, you should look for the bank's sticker on the FDIC website, not vice versa, if your goal is to not get scammed.
tlrobinson 13y ago
If by "regulation" you mean "cryptographic proof of solvency", then yes: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7277865 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7277865 Bitcoin itself has the potential to replace the need for certain types of regulation entirely, but we're not there yet.
ryanSrich 13y ago
I think the bitcoin community at large is interested in standardization for the greater good not regulation enforced through tyrannical political institutions.
- skywhopper 13y ago
  Well, who decides what the "greater good" is and how to achieve it? If the BitCoin exchanges get together and decide on a set of standard procedures and policies that are in any way enforced or monitored, then voila: "Governments are instituted among [BitCoin Exchanges], deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed", aka "tryannical political institutions" and regulation.
  - ryanSrich 13y ago
    I think the Bitcoin community at large has a certain set of values that it regards as sacred (security, anonymity, freedom from state regulation) Perhaps I'm wrong though. Regulation is often associated with political states and are often enforced through brute force. I think if we could, as a community, regulate without any state intervention that would be ideal.

krapp 13y ago

Revolutions stop being fun when you're the one who's bleeding...

jey 13y ago

Why must that require regulation? They're calling for a meme that informed actors probably wouldn't do business with exchanges that don't provide those "requirements".

olefoo 13y ago
That's regulations with a multilateral peer enforcement mechanism. Conveniently enough it serves as a barrier to entry to new competitors. So if you were wanting to start a bitcoin exchange, you may have missed the boat.
- dantheman 13y ago
  It's not regulation, it's best practices. You can choose to work with someoone who does them or not. Regulation takes that choice away.

clamprecht 13y ago

It sounds like self-regulation. If exchanges would just prove solvency periodically (which is possible with the blockchain), the whole world could see it. Wouldn't it be nice if you could see the balance sheet of your bank, in a way that accountants couldn't lie about it?

rdtsc 13y ago
> It sounds like self-regulation. Because that has worked wonders for the other industries -- let's have pharma companies, oil, food producers, just self regulate.
- dmm 13y ago
  There are historical instances of self-regulation working. The movie and video game industries control their own content ratings and before the invention of dynamite, nitroglycerin was commonly used as an explosive in construction. Shipping NG is very dangerous because of its instability and many accidents occurred. They industry eventually developed extensive standards regarding shipping that vastly improved the safety of shipping NG.
  - eropple 13y ago
    > movie and video game industries control their own content ratings Not sure you're helping yourself here. The established movie industry uses its content rating system as a bludgeon against independent filmmakers. The video game industry's content controls are largely a joke, assigned arbitrarily by people who never actually play the game.
    - bduerst 13y ago
      How are movie ratings used as a bludgeon against independent filmmakers?
      - br78 13y ago
        I'm sorry it's not an easy source to access, but you should watch this film http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Film_Is_Not_Yet_Rated http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/This_Film_Is_Not_Yet_Rated
      - dagw 13y ago
        Short version: Most cinemas and other outlets in the US won't carry your movie if it's unrated, so in effect those who control the ratings control which movies can get distributed. Also most cinemas in the US won't show NC17 rated movies so the ratings people can also use that as a way to prevent your movie being shown to a large cinema audience if they want to.
  - venomsnake 13y ago
rahimnathwani 13y ago
prove solvency periodically Solvency, the ability to pay what you owe people when it falls due, is easy to prove at any point in time. The state of insolvency occurs the first time you have an obligation to pay, which you cannot satisfy. The thing is, if you're a de facto bank (by virtue of holding customer demand deposits) then your future expectations of solvency could turn out to be wrong because everyone wants their money at the same time (i.e. there's a bank run).
- jasomill 13y ago
  MtGox isn't supposed to be a fractional-reserve Bitcoin bank, so, modulo server capacity problems and modest transaction delays due to offline Bitcoin storage, why, in principle, should everyone wanting their Bitcoins at the same time pose a problem?
  - rahimnathwani 13y ago
    You are right. My point about solvency was a general one (applying to all people and companies) but I overlooked an important point: the Bitcoins entrusted by customers to MtGox do not become MtGox assets. The Bitcoins are always owned by the customer (not owed to the customer). They are less like bank deposits than they are the contents of safety deposit boxes at a bank branch.
- icebraining 13y ago
  The idea is that they would prove their solvency for the hypothetical event of everyone wanting their money back at the same time.
dfc 13y ago
> Wouldn't it be nice if you could see the balance sheet of your bank, in a way that accountants couldn't lie about it? I don't think it would be a big "feature" for me. As far as confidence in my bank goes the big thing is the FDIC sticker on the door/website.
- judk 13y ago
  Ah, you should look for the bank's sticker on the FDIC website, not vice versa, if your goal is to not get scammed.

tlrobinson 13y ago

If by "regulation" you mean "cryptographic proof of solvency", then yes: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7277865 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7277865 Bitcoin itself has the potential to replace the need for certain types of regulation entirely, but we're not there yet.

ryanSrich 13y ago

I think the bitcoin community at large is interested in standardization for the greater good not regulation enforced through tyrannical political institutions.

skywhopper 13y ago
Well, who decides what the "greater good" is and how to achieve it? If the BitCoin exchanges get together and decide on a set of standard procedures and policies that are in any way enforced or monitored, then voila: "Governments are instituted among [BitCoin Exchanges], deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed", aka "tryannical political institutions" and regulation.
- ryanSrich 13y ago
  I think the Bitcoin community at large has a certain set of values that it regards as sacred (security, anonymity, freedom from state regulation) Perhaps I'm wrong though. Regulation is often associated with political states and are often enforced through brute force. I think if we could, as a community, regulate without any state intervention that would be ideal.