13 ms·

Joint Statement Regarding the Insolvency of Mt. Gox

353 points by velcro 13y ago

crazypyro 13y ago
Interesting to see these companies assume that the report is real. I wonder if they had contact with the owners of MtGox or if they simply wanted to get a jump on what is sure to be a major downswing in BTC prices.
- Aqueous 13y ago
  This is coordinated. Which means they've known long enough to coordinate every exchange.
  - crazypyro 13y ago
    That is an interesting point. How long would it actually take to coordinate between those exchanges though? Its been a big day in BTC news and I'm sure everyone with some skin in the game is watching the news like a hawk.
    - Aqueous 13y ago
      Probably not very long. But I'd wager they've known since at least this morning. Given last night's resignation of Mt. Gox from the Foundation, I'd say since last night.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
  - wmf 13y ago
    People have been accusing MtGox of being insolvent for years and the malleability stuff has been going on for weeks. Plenty of time to whip up some damage control.
- ChuckMcM 13y ago
  Seems like a safe choice, if its real they already have their statement out there, if it's false, they still have a positive statement of support for their customers out there. I don't see any downside to them coming out with this statement at this time, do you?
  - MWil 13y ago
    I think that's true. The headline could be changed and the text would still be read assurably.
    - spiralpolitik 13y ago
      The Coinbase headline makes no mention of insolvent. So either the headline changed after the post to HN or the poster is trying to scare things up.
      - MWil 13y ago
        It was in fact changed.
      - skywhopper 13y ago
        Check out the URL that's linked in the OP. It includes the word "insolvency", and then redirects to the appropriate place.
    - mattm 13y ago
      Headline was changed. The original is still on blockchain.info http://blog.blockchain.info/2014/02/25/joint-statement/ http://blog.blockchain.info/2014/02/25/joint-statement/ Edit: now blockchain.info has also removed "insolvency" from the headline but not the first sentence.
      - oscilloscope 13y ago
        The first sentence has now been edited to remove the word "insolvency".
zacinbusiness 13y ago
I think it would be cool to hear what the creator of Bitcoin thinks about all this. Is it annoying? Or is it the beauty of a new technology that's still cutting its teeth.
- knodi 13y ago
  Good luck finding Satoshi Nakamoto. Also this wasn't a bitcoin issue, it was an exchange issue.
  - zacinbusiness 13y ago
    I know it's not a bit coin problem, but I'd like to hear his (or her) thoughts on how people are implementing the technology, how these sorts of problems are being handled and what he sees as the major lessons learned (other than don't trust some non-insured entity with your cash).
- saraid216 13y ago
  The NSA isn't going to publish a statement about this. That would be silly.
waterlesscloud 13y ago
"Acting as a custodian should require a high-bar, including appropriate security safeguards that are independently audited and tested on a regular basis, adequate balance sheets and reserves as commercial entities, transparent and accountable customer disclosures, and clear policies to not use customer assets for proprietary trading or for margin loans in leveraged trading. It does not appear to any of us that MtGox followed any these essential requirements as a financial services provider." Did I miss the part where Coinbase, Kraken, Bitstamp, BTC China, Blockchain.info, and Circle met those essential requirements? I guess those things are just essential now, not in the past.
- skywhopper 13y ago
  So, the Bitcoin community is calling for regulation?
  - krapp 13y ago
    Revolutions stop being fun when you're the one who's bleeding...
  - jey 13y ago
    Why must that require regulation? They're calling for a meme that informed actors probably wouldn't do business with exchanges that don't provide those "requirements".
    - olefoo 13y ago
      That's regulations with a multilateral peer enforcement mechanism. Conveniently enough it serves as a barrier to entry to new competitors. So if you were wanting to start a bitcoin exchange, you may have missed the boat.
      - dantheman 13y ago
        It's not regulation, it's best practices. You can choose to work with someoone who does them or not. Regulation takes that choice away.
catmanjan 13y ago
Anyone else getting the sense that a lot of people on HN have a large investment in MtGox? Not usually this much nay-saying (denial?) on here.
- minimaxir 13y ago
  A lot of people everywhere have a large investment in MtGox.
  - notacoward 13y ago
    Um, no. The vast majority of people even among wealthy/high-tech countries have absolutely nothing to do with MtGox, and people in the rest of the world are even more distant from it. It might loom large on the horizon for you and for a significant percentage of HN users, but let's not completely lose perspective here.
    - erichurkman 13y ago
      If the other post is to believed, they have around 740,000 BTC. There are roughly 12,400,000 coins total at the moment. That pegs Mt. Gox's share at 6%.
      - zanny 13y ago
        I'm sure a lot more than 6% of all total bitcoins are lost to dead wallets and such already, though. Only drives up the scarcity of the rest of em. I highly doubt Gox's coins are "gone" though. Someone has those wallets and almost certainly is going to make a pretty penny fucking over the customer base, but caveat emptor.
  - catmanjan 13y ago
    I think only a select few people in a select few first world countries have any investment at all in MtGox.
- colinbartlett 13y ago
dustcoin 13y ago
"In order to re-establish the trust squandered by the failings of Mt. Gox, responsible bitcoin exchanges are working together and are committed to the future of bitcoin and the security of all customer funds." As someone with funds stuck in gox, I optimistically hope that "all customer funds" includes gox customers, in the form of some sort of industry-led bailout.
- anigbrowl 13y ago
  Nothing personal (I don't know you at all)but I find it ironic that you want bitcoin users on other exchanges to pick up the tab for your poor investment decision. Cavest investor, and all that. The irony of a bitcoin bailout is pretty damn thick.
  - llamataboot 13y ago
    Not necessarily - there could be a variety of reasons that other companies would pitch in to cover holders of BTC in Mt Gox - not the least of which is faith in the bitcoin economy as a whole. There's nothing about an unregulated currency that means "screw you".
    - jeswin 13y ago
      For people with money on MtGox this is an unfortunate situation. There is no way other exchanges would take money from customers and give it back into MtGox users. That would be absolutely unethical. The other option is for exchanges to collectively absorb the financial cost of Gox stupidity. At $350m, I'd say no chance of that happening.
      - zanny 13y ago
        The Gox price already tanked and a huge chunk of their funds already moved out. It was the mistake of anyone who invested in Gox, and more importantly kept their money in Gox, to do so with a company that time and time again proved its incompetence.
zoba 13y ago
Wow, so Coinbase just changed the title. It used to read as velcro correctly posted on HN. http://i.imgur.com/dX8315e.png http://i.imgur.com/dX8315e.png
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
  - zoba 13y ago
    Perhaps I'm just a conspiracy theorist, but, I gotta believe Coinbase knows some stuff they can't talk about by being a member of the Bitcoin Foundation (that Mt Gox just stepped down from). I imagine what happened is Coinbase slipped and revealed information they shouldn't have, and then retracted it.... I was going to pay off my student loans with those coins, damn it!
    - MWil 13y ago
      Or someone clued them in to the same thing I mentioned, that they didn't really NEED that headline. It still read very well without it.
- velcro 13y ago
  Yup - probably for legal reasons. They can't claim someone else's insolvency before MtGox makes it official... Have to say the BTC price is holding remarkably well considering - maybe because the mainstream media hasn't picked up on it yet - but still...
- skywhopper 13y ago
  Yes, note the URL linked from this page (which now redirects to a new URL) includes "the-insolvency-of-mtgox": http://blog.coinbase.com/post/77766809700/joint-statement-regarding-the-insolvency-of-mtgox http://blog.coinbase.com/post/77766809700/joint-statement-re...
  - micahgoulart 13y ago
    I know in this case it is true (I read it while it still had "insolvency" in the title) but for future reference, the only part that matters is the id in the URL, the second part can be made up like so http://blog.coinbase.com/post/77766809700/i-just-made-this-up http://blog.coinbase.com/post/77766809700/i-just-made-this-u...
Aqueous 13y ago
This was signed by: Jesse Powell — CEO of Kraken Nejc Kodrič — CEO of Bitstamp.net Bobby Lee — CEO of BTC China Nicolas Cary — CEO of Blockchain.info Jeremy Allaire — CEO of Circle Fred Ehrsam — Co-founder of Coinbase but NOT: Brian Armstrong - CEO of CoinBase?
- ericd 13y ago
  Maybe he's on a flight? Its not really necessary that it be signed by everyone at each company.
tlrobinson 13y ago
Also: http://www.circle.com/2014/02/24/joint-statement-regarding-insolvency-mt-gox/ http://www.circle.com/2014/02/24/joint-statement-regarding-i... http://blog.blockchain.info/2014/02/25/joint-statement/ http://blog.blockchain.info/2014/02/25/joint-statement/ https://vip.btcchina.com/page/notice20140225 https://vip.btcchina.com/page/notice20140225 http://www.reddit.com/r/Kraken/comments/1yux6n/joint_statement_regarding_mt_gox/ http://www.reddit.com/r/Kraken/comments/1yux6n/joint_stateme...
- skywhopper 13y ago
  Whoa, I just noticed the CEO of Circle is one of the creators of ColdFusion.
  - vijucat 13y ago
    Not sure. The JJ Allaire mentioned here : http://www.rstudio.com/about/ http://www.rstudio.com/about/ is probably different from the Jeremy Allaire mentioned here : http://www.circle.com/about/ http://www.circle.com/about/?
    - npongratz 13y ago
      If Wikipedia can be believed [0], JJ Allaire [1] and Jeremy Allaire are brothers [2]. [0] I mean no slight against Wikipedia, I only mention this since the statement "He now runs a bitcoin start up in Boston" is supported by no citation (as of 2014-02-24). [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_J._Allaire http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_J._Allaire [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Allaire http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Allaire
      - whistlerbrk 13y ago
        Yes indeed they are brothers. Homesite/Dreamweaver/CFML forever baby, that's how I got my start coding. ColdFusion so, so, so far ahead of it's time.
spiralpolitik 13y ago
This is Coinbase, Kraken et al throwing MtGox under the bus to stop the taint from spreading. Note there is no mention of any help for MtGox or its customers. Just reassurance that they aren't MtGox. This is the wagons being circled to stop the non MtGox price from tanking further.
- Narkov 13y ago
  Why should they help MtGox or its customers?
  - spiralpolitik 13y ago
    They shouldn't, but there seems to be the expectation that the community will step in and help MtGox out of this mess for the sake of Bitcoin. It isn't going to happen as MtGox has been a boil that's needed to be lanced for a while now. This is the first step given that MtGox has decided to stay silent.
    - zanny 13y ago
      The best thing for the sake of bitcoin is for Gox to be gone. Maybe we could finally have a year where the incompetence of their engineering and management staff doesn't skew the price all about like a merry-go-round.
- Crito 13y ago
  Can you really throw somebody under the bus if the bus is already firmly parked on top of them?
username223 13y ago
> the digital currency industry. It's like the beanie baby industry, minus the stuffed animals.
- lmm 13y ago
  Or like the collectible card game industry.
  - poolpool 13y ago
    Do you know any sites to sell and trade TCG and CCG cards?
    - lmm 13y ago
      Not yet, but I heard some guy in Japan was thinking of setting up an online exchange for magic the gathering cards.
- ceol 13y ago
  That's unfair to the beanie baby industry. They were actually producing something.
Moral_ 13y ago
https://www.mtgox.com https://www.mtgox.com -- The site is now blank
- lazyloop 13y ago
  Wow, watching this thing unfold is like watching a train wreck in slow motion.
  - Moral_ 13y ago
    If you join the MTGOX irc channel its like watching the soviet union collapse.
    - icpmacdo 13y ago
      link please. Freenode?
      - Moral_ 13y ago
        irc.freenode.net ##mtgox-chat
        gizzlon 13y ago
        #mtgox-chat Cannot join channel (+i) - you must be invited :(
        dscrd 13y ago
        Two #s, that was not a typo
  - oscilloscope 13y ago
    For those just tuning in: at about 6pm PST Gox shut down their trading engine, but the site was still up. There's a supposedly internal document floating around that describes Gox's insolvency plan (which many consider a hoax). Then this joint letter which initially used the word "insolvency" in the title but was edited several minutes later.
tokenadult 13y ago
Since a Hacker News participant first told me about Bitcoin Ticker[1] (back when a regulatory action in China caused a sharp drop in Bitcoin prices in U.S. dollars), the Bitcoin price has dropped still more. That's not the kind of volatility I look for in an investment. [1] http://bitcointicker.co/ http://bitcointicker.co/
- MWil 13y ago
  3Mth
- zanny 13y ago
  Bitcoin isn't an investment, it is an entirely different way of doing money. If you want to play it safe play by old money rules, if you want to be on the forefront of something many of us think is revolutionary "long term return projections" be damned. Then again, I just spent most of my btc on tigerdirect 3 weeks ago, so I don't even have much left to call myself an investor with.
- brazzy 13y ago
  > That's not the kind of volatility I look for in an investment. Are you aware that any investment that produces nothing other than a rising market price is pretty much guaranteed to have very high volatility?
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
olefoo 13y ago
This sort of thing is why finance is a regulated industry. Although why anyone would have had money in Mt. Gox after they had their stateside accounts frozen is beyond me. It's not like there weren't any warning signs http://www.techmeme.com/130620/p53#a130620p53 http://www.techmeme.com/130620/p53#a130620p53
- Symmetry 13y ago
  You can't have progress without the possibility of failure. I'm glad my local bank is regulated and insured by the government, but I'm also glad that the world of Bitcoin exists for people who want to experiment with digital currencies.
conanbatt 13y ago
This feels like taking advantage of Gox's demise.
- chris_wot 13y ago
  Mt Gox were pretty pathetic, I can't really blame them. But then again, they are worried about how it will affect bitcoin as a whole.
  - conanbatt 13y ago
    For all they did wrong, known for a very long time, they were the lead chargers in bitcoin and all these exchanges got "real investors" and after Mtgox was successful. If Mtgox were trading magic cards, the story would have been probably different for most exchanges. They deserve to shut down, and stop business. They dont deserve to get ridiculed because they didnt measure up to the expectancy created around an instrument they dealt with when it was worth nothing.
    - chris_wot 13y ago
      They took a lot of money and mismanaged it. They absolutely deserve the ridicule. They had a lot of time to get their act together.
- vidarh 13y ago
  More like hoping the corpse have finally stopped moving, so it will stop spooking people away from BTC.
nasalgoat 13y ago
After the first rumblings of problems at MtGox, I moved my BTC over to a local wallet. Best decision I made all last year!
chris_wot 13y ago
Hold on... which exchanges were using customer funds for margin loans?!? Was Mt. Gox doing this?
fuckpig 13y ago
Bitcoin: trading one Ponzi scheme for another. Sort of like Dot-Com Boom 3.0, come to think of it.
lkrubner 13y ago
For historical perspective, consider the last great panic to sweep the USA before the Federal Reserve was established: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic_of_1907 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic_of_1907 What is (so far) missing in the world of Bitcoin is a single actor powerful enough to play the organizing role that Morgan played during that previous crash: "Morgan summoned the presidents of the city's banks to his office. They started to arrive at 2 p.m.; Morgan informed them that as many as 50 stock exchange houses would fail unless $25 million was raised in 10 minutes. By 2:16 p.m., 14 bank presidents had pledged $23.6 million to keep the stock exchange afloat. The money reached the market at 2:30 p.m., in time to finish the day's trading, and by the 3 o'clock market close, $19 million had been loaned out. Disaster was averted. Morgan usually eschewed the press, but as he left his offices that night he made a statement to reporters: "If people will keep their money in the banks, everything will be all right""
- powera 13y ago
  If 50%+1 of the Bitcoin miners agree, couldn't they just mint 700000 extra bitcoin to make the depositors at MtGox whole? The confidence it inspires would probably be worth more than the impact of the inflation, and with Bitcoin prices dropping miners need to support the price to stay above break-even.
  - patio11 13y ago
    Technically speaking, yes. That would kill Bitcoin, though, because the community depends on it having an (eventually) fixed supply rather than it being having "an eventually fixed supply, except when we have a really good reason to do quantitative easing."
    - mtrimpe 13y ago
      Does it really? Could it not just as easily help Bitcoin to become a currency with real-world controls? I already remarked once that Bitcoin is remarkable democratic in a way; perhaps this is a good time to leverage that...
    - 13y ago
tskweres 13y ago
Although we shed a tear for not being included in this Industry Leading announcement, I think we can all make a group announcement on top of this joint announcement that announces that Mt.Gox is pretty crappy. Travis Skweres - Cofounder, CoinMKT
- notacoward 13y ago
  Classy.
throwaway5857 13y ago
MtGox failed because they relied upon the correctness of their own implementation of the bitcoin protocol. This was a huge mistake, one which I am sure will haunt all involved for a long time. Coinbase is making the exact same mistake. They rely on their own implementation of the bitcoin protocol. Their client has been hard forked repeatedly. Some of these incidents were random, but many were forced; not by attackers but by whitehats trying despirately to show them their error. The danger of using their own implementation cannot be overstated. For the love of god move to the reference client.
whistlerbrk 13y ago
Wow, reading the comments about ways to solve this above and I'm speechless... let's follow demands for regulation/self-regulation/FDIC-style insurance to its logical conclusion - it seems to me that everything will eventually come full circle and every financial institution and mechanism that people do not like today which moves them towards Bitcoin will ultimately be recreated by this new wave. Bitcoin is not a revolution, it is not a movement, it's an iteration, and a significant one. The same thing for the internet, today vs 1996, all the same huge media companies as before dominate the web with some new ones mixed in that jumped in early.
dmitrygr 13y ago
It is pretty entertaining to watch the bitcoin crowd slowly reinvent all the controls that exist in the existing monetary systems as they slowly learn what they are for. One lesson down, how many to go? :)
- anywhichway 13y ago
  What controls? I see some empty reassurances, but nobody that I see is proposing controls. I doubt controls for existing monetary systems would work for bitcoins anyway as it requires a central organization that has power, like printing money, and enough vested interest to through good money after bad money to save the currency. Bitcoins have neither of these.
  - bduerst 13y ago
    From the Article: >Acting as a custodian should require a high-bar, including appropriate security safeguards that are independently audited and tested on a regular basis, adequate balance sheets and reserves as commercial entities, transparent and accountable customer disclosures, and clear policies to not use customer assets for proprietary trading or for margin loans in leveraged trading.
    - bertil 13y ago
      I believe that anywhichway hasn’t found the names of the “independent[…] audit[ors]” in that document. He’s being harsh, but his point is technically true: the text reads ‘should’ first. Hopefully, a matter of days.
- LunaSea 13y ago
  Yeah cause that worked really well in the real world right ? 2008 and 2009 were so successful with these "controls" that were supposedly in place !
  - superuser2 13y ago
    The catastrophe of 2008 (to consumers) was that the market decided to make credit scarce. It makes sense that the government can't force banks to take unjustified risks once they've wised up to the recklessness of their lending. This is very different from money just disappearing out of checking accounts, which is what happened with MtGox. Even if that did happen, the FDIC would make the depositors whole.
anigbrowl 13y ago
Thinking about this... This tragic violation of the trust of users of Mt.Gox was the result of one company’s actions and does not reflect the resilience or value of bitcoin and the digital currency industry. The best way to build trust in the 'resilience of Bitcoin' would be to leverage the blockchain technology to help document who lost what and monitor if/when any of those coins appear in the future. This is going to cost money as well as development time. It's one thing wax pious about how and why this happened and to say it must never happen again etc. But the best thing the exchanges could do for their long-term credibility would be to each put up a chunk of cash and engage an expensive law firm to set up a trust and audit the whole affair as completely as possible. That's going to require a collective commitment of of a million dollars, or possibly a few million. It's either that or get put under the microscope of existing financial regulators on their schedule, which (IMHO) will relegate BTC to the status of a disaffection currency that is only convertible in fringe markets.
NickSharp 13y ago
And now coinbase.com is down. Not a good sign...
iamchmod 13y ago
Wow! I can see a misguided politician already saying something like "Maybe all bitcoin exchanges/wallets/etc need money transmitter licenses or FDIC insurance"
busterzzz 13y ago
Why did coin base issue one statement, take it down seconds later, and issue almost the same statement with some slight differences. See if you can tell the difference.http://openxrptalk.org/topic/102/mtgox-original-unaltered-insolvency-statement#701 http://openxrptalk.org/topic/102/mtgox-original-unaltered-in...
thinkcomp 13y ago
My response: http://www.aarongreenspan.com/writing/essay.html?id=100 http://www.aarongreenspan.com/writing/essay.html?id=100
_pmf_ 13y ago
> We strongly believe in transparent, thoughtful, and comprehensive consumer protection measures. We pledge to lead the way. Words are cheap.
chrisBob 13y ago
Is it possible to fine the bit coins that were stolen and then effectively devalue them? One thing the miners should be able to do is refuse to verify transactions with the stolen BTC.
- danielweber 13y ago
  There is always that option. But what if you got some bitcoins today that turned out to have been stolen two months ago? It might be a good idea, but it's antithetical to the community.
fixermark 13y ago
So it seems, in essence, that the fundamental issue is that MtGox became "Too big to fail," and this is what the repercussions on a currency market of the failure of a large and trusted institution look like. It's an interesting object lesson for armchair economists, and I'm sure some hay will be made drawing comparisons to the US housing market crash and the value of the dollar.
bakhy 13y ago
isn't the bitcoin scene beginning to resemble a modern government in recession? carefully crafted statements, avoiding to say much, but very reassuring... markets be praised! the leaked "Crisis Strategy Draft" slideshow seems like it was actually authored by these companies, not MtGox.
whileonebegin 13y ago
"So, my Coinbase account was hacked, bitcoin stolen, now what?" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6946832 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6946832 FYI, after some time, Coinbase followed up with my support ticket and said tough luck, bitcoins lost, better luck next time. No mention was made of any effort to track-down the hacker or fraudulent transaction. They probably didn't even block the hacker's IP address. And yet, Coinbase declares, "We strongly believe in transparent, thoughtful, and comprehensive consumer protection measures. We pledge to lead the way."
pdovy 13y ago
I think there should be some discussion about setting up a SIPC equivalent for Bitcoin exchanges. Each exchange/operator contributes dues that provide a fund for compensating losses in the event of a member's insolvency. That would also provide a strong incentive to for members cry fowl about bad practices, self-audit, etc.
VikingCoder 13y ago
So the story goes: The new Russian President found a note in the desk of the old Russian President, "To my successor: When you find yourself in a hopeless situation which you cannot escape, open the first letter, and it will save you. Later, when you again find yourself in a hopeless situation from which you cannot escape, open the second letter." A few months later, there was a massive problem. The new Russian President opened the first letter, which said, "Blame it all on me." He did. It worked great. A little bit later, there was another massive problem. The new Russian President opened the second letter, which said, "Sit down, and write two letters." I feel like this is the Bitcoin community collectively blaming the old Russian President. (Never mind the inherent flaws in the system.)
jamesk_au 13y ago
Note that the "industry leaders" who "stand by this statement" have published slightly different variations of it. See, for example, Circle's statement[1], which styles itself as a joint statement regarding "the Insolvency of Mt.Gox", and describes Mt Gox's actions as "abhorrent". At the end of Circle's statement, after listing some of the high standards to which Bitcoin custodians should be held, the author(s) make this observation: "It does not appear to any of us that MtGox followed any these essential requirements as a financial services provider." The statements of Kraken[2], BTC China[3] and Blockchain.info[4] also describe Mt Gox's actions as "abhorrent" and make the same observation about Mt Gox in relation to its compliance with appropriate standards. Coinbase's statement[5], on the other hand, does not use "abhorrent" and does not express any view on whether Mt Gox complied with the "essential requirements" of a Bitcoin custodian. But the Coinbase statement does include this sentence: "Mtgox has confirmed its issues in private discussions with other members of the bitcoin community". That sentence is conspicuously absent from the other statements. Finally, the Bitstamp.net[6] statement is completely different. It says that the "known losses" of fiat currency and Bitcoin "are limited to those balances that were in MtGox's care", and that Mt Gox "can best explain how this happened". The names of the industry leaders appear at the bottom of each statement. Have they signed off on all of them? Did some leaders edit the "joint" statement to avoid potentially defaming Mt Gox? Or do some of them know something we don't? --- [1] Circle: http://www.circle.com/2014/02/24/joint-statement-regarding-insolvency-mt-gox/ http://www.circle.com/2014/02/24/joint-statement-regarding-i... [2] Kraken: http://www.reddit.com/r/Kraken/comments/1yux6n/joint_statement_regarding_mt_gox/ http://www.reddit.com/r/Kraken/comments/1yux6n/joint_stateme... [3] BTC China: https://vip.btcchina.com/page/notice20140225 https://vip.btcchina.com/page/notice20140225 [4] Blockchain.info: http://blog.blockchain.info/2014/02/25/joint-statement/ http://blog.blockchain.info/2014/02/25/joint-statement/ [5] Coinbase: http://blog.coinbase.com/post/77766809700/joint-statement-regarding-the-insolvency-of-mtgox http://blog.coinbase.com/post/77766809700/joint-statement-re... [6] Bitstamp.net: https://www.bitstamp.net/article/Statement-by-Bitstamp-regarding-MtGox-insolv/ https://www.bitstamp.net/article/Statement-by-Bitstamp-regar...

353 points by velcro 13y ago

Interesting to see these companies assume that the report is real. I wonder if they had contact with the owners of MtGox or if they simply wanted to get a jump on what is sure to be a major downswing in BTC prices.

Aqueous 13y ago
This is coordinated. Which means they've known long enough to coordinate every exchange.
- crazypyro 13y ago
  That is an interesting point. How long would it actually take to coordinate between those exchanges though? Its been a big day in BTC news and I'm sure everyone with some skin in the game is watching the news like a hawk.
  - Aqueous 13y ago
    Probably not very long. But I'd wager they've known since at least this morning. Given last night's resignation of Mt. Gox from the Foundation, I'd say since last night.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
- wmf 13y ago
  People have been accusing MtGox of being insolvent for years and the malleability stuff has been going on for weeks. Plenty of time to whip up some damage control.
ChuckMcM 13y ago
Seems like a safe choice, if its real they already have their statement out there, if it's false, they still have a positive statement of support for their customers out there. I don't see any downside to them coming out with this statement at this time, do you?
- MWil 13y ago
  I think that's true. The headline could be changed and the text would still be read assurably.
  - spiralpolitik 13y ago
    The Coinbase headline makes no mention of insolvent. So either the headline changed after the post to HN or the poster is trying to scare things up.
    - MWil 13y ago
      It was in fact changed.
    - skywhopper 13y ago
      Check out the URL that's linked in the OP. It includes the word "insolvency", and then redirects to the appropriate place.
  - mattm 13y ago
    Headline was changed. The original is still on blockchain.info http://blog.blockchain.info/2014/02/25/joint-statement/ http://blog.blockchain.info/2014/02/25/joint-statement/ Edit: now blockchain.info has also removed "insolvency" from the headline but not the first sentence.
    - oscilloscope 13y ago
      The first sentence has now been edited to remove the word "insolvency".

zacinbusiness 13y ago

I think it would be cool to hear what the creator of Bitcoin thinks about all this. Is it annoying? Or is it the beauty of a new technology that's still cutting its teeth.

knodi 13y ago
Good luck finding Satoshi Nakamoto. Also this wasn't a bitcoin issue, it was an exchange issue.
- zacinbusiness 13y ago
  I know it's not a bit coin problem, but I'd like to hear his (or her) thoughts on how people are implementing the technology, how these sorts of problems are being handled and what he sees as the major lessons learned (other than don't trust some non-insured entity with your cash).
saraid216 13y ago
The NSA isn't going to publish a statement about this. That would be silly.

waterlesscloud 13y ago

"Acting as a custodian should require a high-bar, including appropriate security safeguards that are independently audited and tested on a regular basis, adequate balance sheets and reserves as commercial entities, transparent and accountable customer disclosures, and clear policies to not use customer assets for proprietary trading or for margin loans in leveraged trading. It does not appear to any of us that MtGox followed any these essential requirements as a financial services provider." Did I miss the part where Coinbase, Kraken, Bitstamp, BTC China, Blockchain.info, and Circle met those essential requirements? I guess those things are just essential now, not in the past.

skywhopper 13y ago
So, the Bitcoin community is calling for regulation?
- krapp 13y ago
  Revolutions stop being fun when you're the one who's bleeding...
- jey 13y ago
  Why must that require regulation? They're calling for a meme that informed actors probably wouldn't do business with exchanges that don't provide those "requirements".
  - olefoo 13y ago
    That's regulations with a multilateral peer enforcement mechanism. Conveniently enough it serves as a barrier to entry to new competitors. So if you were wanting to start a bitcoin exchange, you may have missed the boat.
    - dantheman 13y ago
      It's not regulation, it's best practices. You can choose to work with someoone who does them or not. Regulation takes that choice away.

catmanjan 13y ago

Anyone else getting the sense that a lot of people on HN have a large investment in MtGox? Not usually this much nay-saying (denial?) on here.

minimaxir 13y ago
A lot of people everywhere have a large investment in MtGox.
- notacoward 13y ago
  Um, no. The vast majority of people even among wealthy/high-tech countries have absolutely nothing to do with MtGox, and people in the rest of the world are even more distant from it. It might loom large on the horizon for you and for a significant percentage of HN users, but let's not completely lose perspective here.
  - erichurkman 13y ago
    If the other post is to believed, they have around 740,000 BTC. There are roughly 12,400,000 coins total at the moment. That pegs Mt. Gox's share at 6%.
    - zanny 13y ago
      I'm sure a lot more than 6% of all total bitcoins are lost to dead wallets and such already, though. Only drives up the scarcity of the rest of em. I highly doubt Gox's coins are "gone" though. Someone has those wallets and almost certainly is going to make a pretty penny fucking over the customer base, but caveat emptor.
- catmanjan 13y ago
  I think only a select few people in a select few first world countries have any investment at all in MtGox.
colinbartlett 13y ago

dustcoin 13y ago

"In order to re-establish the trust squandered by the failings of Mt. Gox, responsible bitcoin exchanges are working together and are committed to the future of bitcoin and the security of all customer funds." As someone with funds stuck in gox, I optimistically hope that "all customer funds" includes gox customers, in the form of some sort of industry-led bailout.

anigbrowl 13y ago
Nothing personal (I don't know you at all)but I find it ironic that you want bitcoin users on other exchanges to pick up the tab for your poor investment decision. Cavest investor, and all that. The irony of a bitcoin bailout is pretty damn thick.
- llamataboot 13y ago
  Not necessarily - there could be a variety of reasons that other companies would pitch in to cover holders of BTC in Mt Gox - not the least of which is faith in the bitcoin economy as a whole. There's nothing about an unregulated currency that means "screw you".
  - jeswin 13y ago
    For people with money on MtGox this is an unfortunate situation. There is no way other exchanges would take money from customers and give it back into MtGox users. That would be absolutely unethical. The other option is for exchanges to collectively absorb the financial cost of Gox stupidity. At $350m, I'd say no chance of that happening.
    - zanny 13y ago
      The Gox price already tanked and a huge chunk of their funds already moved out. It was the mistake of anyone who invested in Gox, and more importantly kept their money in Gox, to do so with a company that time and time again proved its incompetence.

zoba 13y ago

Wow, so Coinbase just changed the title. It used to read as velcro correctly posted on HN. http://i.imgur.com/dX8315e.png http://i.imgur.com/dX8315e.png

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
- zoba 13y ago
  Perhaps I'm just a conspiracy theorist, but, I gotta believe Coinbase knows some stuff they can't talk about by being a member of the Bitcoin Foundation (that Mt Gox just stepped down from). I imagine what happened is Coinbase slipped and revealed information they shouldn't have, and then retracted it.... I was going to pay off my student loans with those coins, damn it!
  - MWil 13y ago
    Or someone clued them in to the same thing I mentioned, that they didn't really NEED that headline. It still read very well without it.
velcro 13y ago
Yup - probably for legal reasons. They can't claim someone else's insolvency before MtGox makes it official... Have to say the BTC price is holding remarkably well considering - maybe because the mainstream media hasn't picked up on it yet - but still...
skywhopper 13y ago
Yes, note the URL linked from this page (which now redirects to a new URL) includes "the-insolvency-of-mtgox": http://blog.coinbase.com/post/77766809700/joint-statement-regarding-the-insolvency-of-mtgox http://blog.coinbase.com/post/77766809700/joint-statement-re...
- micahgoulart 13y ago
  I know in this case it is true (I read it while it still had "insolvency" in the title) but for future reference, the only part that matters is the id in the URL, the second part can be made up like so http://blog.coinbase.com/post/77766809700/i-just-made-this-up http://blog.coinbase.com/post/77766809700/i-just-made-this-u...

Aqueous 13y ago

This was signed by: Jesse Powell — CEO of Kraken Nejc Kodrič — CEO of Bitstamp.net Bobby Lee — CEO of BTC China Nicolas Cary — CEO of Blockchain.info Jeremy Allaire — CEO of Circle Fred Ehrsam — Co-founder of Coinbase but NOT: Brian Armstrong - CEO of CoinBase?

ericd 13y ago
Maybe he's on a flight? Its not really necessary that it be signed by everyone at each company.

tlrobinson 13y ago

Also: http://www.circle.com/2014/02/24/joint-statement-regarding-insolvency-mt-gox/ http://www.circle.com/2014/02/24/joint-statement-regarding-i... http://blog.blockchain.info/2014/02/25/joint-statement/ http://blog.blockchain.info/2014/02/25/joint-statement/ https://vip.btcchina.com/page/notice20140225 https://vip.btcchina.com/page/notice20140225 http://www.reddit.com/r/Kraken/comments/1yux6n/joint_statement_regarding_mt_gox/ http://www.reddit.com/r/Kraken/comments/1yux6n/joint_stateme...

skywhopper 13y ago
Whoa, I just noticed the CEO of Circle is one of the creators of ColdFusion.
- vijucat 13y ago
  Not sure. The JJ Allaire mentioned here : http://www.rstudio.com/about/ http://www.rstudio.com/about/ is probably different from the Jeremy Allaire mentioned here : http://www.circle.com/about/ http://www.circle.com/about/?
  - npongratz 13y ago
    If Wikipedia can be believed [0], JJ Allaire [1] and Jeremy Allaire are brothers [2]. [0] I mean no slight against Wikipedia, I only mention this since the statement "He now runs a bitcoin start up in Boston" is supported by no citation (as of 2014-02-24). [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_J._Allaire http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_J._Allaire [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Allaire http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Allaire
    - whistlerbrk 13y ago
      Yes indeed they are brothers. Homesite/Dreamweaver/CFML forever baby, that's how I got my start coding. ColdFusion so, so, so far ahead of it's time.

spiralpolitik 13y ago

This is Coinbase, Kraken et al throwing MtGox under the bus to stop the taint from spreading. Note there is no mention of any help for MtGox or its customers. Just reassurance that they aren't MtGox. This is the wagons being circled to stop the non MtGox price from tanking further.

Narkov 13y ago
Why should they help MtGox or its customers?
- spiralpolitik 13y ago
  They shouldn't, but there seems to be the expectation that the community will step in and help MtGox out of this mess for the sake of Bitcoin. It isn't going to happen as MtGox has been a boil that's needed to be lanced for a while now. This is the first step given that MtGox has decided to stay silent.
  - zanny 13y ago
    The best thing for the sake of bitcoin is for Gox to be gone. Maybe we could finally have a year where the incompetence of their engineering and management staff doesn't skew the price all about like a merry-go-round.
Crito 13y ago
Can you really throw somebody under the bus if the bus is already firmly parked on top of them?

username223 13y ago

> the digital currency industry. It's like the beanie baby industry, minus the stuffed animals.

lmm 13y ago
Or like the collectible card game industry.
- poolpool 13y ago
  Do you know any sites to sell and trade TCG and CCG cards?
  - lmm 13y ago
    Not yet, but I heard some guy in Japan was thinking of setting up an online exchange for magic the gathering cards.
ceol 13y ago
That's unfair to the beanie baby industry. They were actually producing something.

Moral_ 13y ago

https://www.mtgox.com https://www.mtgox.com -- The site is now blank

lazyloop 13y ago
Wow, watching this thing unfold is like watching a train wreck in slow motion.
- Moral_ 13y ago
  If you join the MTGOX irc channel its like watching the soviet union collapse.
  - icpmacdo 13y ago
    link please. Freenode?
    - Moral_ 13y ago
      irc.freenode.net ##mtgox-chat
      - gizzlon 13y ago
        #mtgox-chat Cannot join channel (+i) - you must be invited :(
        dscrd 13y ago
        Two #s, that was not a typo
- oscilloscope 13y ago
  For those just tuning in: at about 6pm PST Gox shut down their trading engine, but the site was still up. There's a supposedly internal document floating around that describes Gox's insolvency plan (which many consider a hoax). Then this joint letter which initially used the word "insolvency" in the title but was edited several minutes later.

tokenadult 13y ago

Since a Hacker News participant first told me about Bitcoin Ticker[1] (back when a regulatory action in China caused a sharp drop in Bitcoin prices in U.S. dollars), the Bitcoin price has dropped still more. That's not the kind of volatility I look for in an investment. [1] http://bitcointicker.co/ http://bitcointicker.co/

MWil 13y ago
3Mth
zanny 13y ago
Bitcoin isn't an investment, it is an entirely different way of doing money. If you want to play it safe play by old money rules, if you want to be on the forefront of something many of us think is revolutionary "long term return projections" be damned. Then again, I just spent most of my btc on tigerdirect 3 weeks ago, so I don't even have much left to call myself an investor with.
brazzy 13y ago
> That's not the kind of volatility I look for in an investment. Are you aware that any investment that produces nothing other than a rising market price is pretty much guaranteed to have very high volatility?

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

olefoo 13y ago

This sort of thing is why finance is a regulated industry. Although why anyone would have had money in Mt. Gox after they had their stateside accounts frozen is beyond me. It's not like there weren't any warning signs http://www.techmeme.com/130620/p53#a130620p53 http://www.techmeme.com/130620/p53#a130620p53

Symmetry 13y ago
You can't have progress without the possibility of failure. I'm glad my local bank is regulated and insured by the government, but I'm also glad that the world of Bitcoin exists for people who want to experiment with digital currencies.

conanbatt 13y ago

This feels like taking advantage of Gox's demise.

chris_wot 13y ago
Mt Gox were pretty pathetic, I can't really blame them. But then again, they are worried about how it will affect bitcoin as a whole.
- conanbatt 13y ago
  For all they did wrong, known for a very long time, they were the lead chargers in bitcoin and all these exchanges got "real investors" and after Mtgox was successful. If Mtgox were trading magic cards, the story would have been probably different for most exchanges. They deserve to shut down, and stop business. They dont deserve to get ridiculed because they didnt measure up to the expectancy created around an instrument they dealt with when it was worth nothing.
  - chris_wot 13y ago
    They took a lot of money and mismanaged it. They absolutely deserve the ridicule. They had a lot of time to get their act together.
vidarh 13y ago
More like hoping the corpse have finally stopped moving, so it will stop spooking people away from BTC.

nasalgoat 13y ago

After the first rumblings of problems at MtGox, I moved my BTC over to a local wallet. Best decision I made all last year!

chris_wot 13y ago

Hold on... which exchanges were using customer funds for margin loans?!? Was Mt. Gox doing this?

fuckpig 13y ago

Bitcoin: trading one Ponzi scheme for another. Sort of like Dot-Com Boom 3.0, come to think of it.

lkrubner 13y ago

For historical perspective, consider the last great panic to sweep the USA before the Federal Reserve was established: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic_of_1907 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic_of_1907 What is (so far) missing in the world of Bitcoin is a single actor powerful enough to play the organizing role that Morgan played during that previous crash: "Morgan summoned the presidents of the city's banks to his office. They started to arrive at 2 p.m.; Morgan informed them that as many as 50 stock exchange houses would fail unless $25 million was raised in 10 minutes. By 2:16 p.m., 14 bank presidents had pledged $23.6 million to keep the stock exchange afloat. The money reached the market at 2:30 p.m., in time to finish the day's trading, and by the 3 o'clock market close, $19 million had been loaned out. Disaster was averted. Morgan usually eschewed the press, but as he left his offices that night he made a statement to reporters: "If people will keep their money in the banks, everything will be all right""

powera 13y ago
If 50%+1 of the Bitcoin miners agree, couldn't they just mint 700000 extra bitcoin to make the depositors at MtGox whole? The confidence it inspires would probably be worth more than the impact of the inflation, and with Bitcoin prices dropping miners need to support the price to stay above break-even.
- patio11 13y ago
  Technically speaking, yes. That would kill Bitcoin, though, because the community depends on it having an (eventually) fixed supply rather than it being having "an eventually fixed supply, except when we have a really good reason to do quantitative easing."
  - mtrimpe 13y ago
    Does it really? Could it not just as easily help Bitcoin to become a currency with real-world controls? I already remarked once that Bitcoin is remarkable democratic in a way; perhaps this is a good time to leverage that...
  - 13y ago

tskweres 13y ago

Although we shed a tear for not being included in this Industry Leading announcement, I think we can all make a group announcement on top of this joint announcement that announces that Mt.Gox is pretty crappy. Travis Skweres - Cofounder, CoinMKT

notacoward 13y ago
Classy.

throwaway5857 13y ago

MtGox failed because they relied upon the correctness of their own implementation of the bitcoin protocol. This was a huge mistake, one which I am sure will haunt all involved for a long time. Coinbase is making the exact same mistake. They rely on their own implementation of the bitcoin protocol. Their client has been hard forked repeatedly. Some of these incidents were random, but many were forced; not by attackers but by whitehats trying despirately to show them their error. The danger of using their own implementation cannot be overstated. For the love of god move to the reference client.

whistlerbrk 13y ago

Wow, reading the comments about ways to solve this above and I'm speechless... let's follow demands for regulation/self-regulation/FDIC-style insurance to its logical conclusion - it seems to me that everything will eventually come full circle and every financial institution and mechanism that people do not like today which moves them towards Bitcoin will ultimately be recreated by this new wave. Bitcoin is not a revolution, it is not a movement, it's an iteration, and a significant one. The same thing for the internet, today vs 1996, all the same huge media companies as before dominate the web with some new ones mixed in that jumped in early.

dmitrygr 13y ago

It is pretty entertaining to watch the bitcoin crowd slowly reinvent all the controls that exist in the existing monetary systems as they slowly learn what they are for. One lesson down, how many to go? :)

anywhichway 13y ago
What controls? I see some empty reassurances, but nobody that I see is proposing controls. I doubt controls for existing monetary systems would work for bitcoins anyway as it requires a central organization that has power, like printing money, and enough vested interest to through good money after bad money to save the currency. Bitcoins have neither of these.
- bduerst 13y ago
  From the Article: >Acting as a custodian should require a high-bar, including appropriate security safeguards that are independently audited and tested on a regular basis, adequate balance sheets and reserves as commercial entities, transparent and accountable customer disclosures, and clear policies to not use customer assets for proprietary trading or for margin loans in leveraged trading.
  - bertil 13y ago
    I believe that anywhichway hasn’t found the names of the “independent[…] audit[ors]” in that document. He’s being harsh, but his point is technically true: the text reads ‘should’ first. Hopefully, a matter of days.
LunaSea 13y ago
Yeah cause that worked really well in the real world right ? 2008 and 2009 were so successful with these "controls" that were supposedly in place !
- superuser2 13y ago
  The catastrophe of 2008 (to consumers) was that the market decided to make credit scarce. It makes sense that the government can't force banks to take unjustified risks once they've wised up to the recklessness of their lending. This is very different from money just disappearing out of checking accounts, which is what happened with MtGox. Even if that did happen, the FDIC would make the depositors whole.

anigbrowl 13y ago

Thinking about this... This tragic violation of the trust of users of Mt.Gox was the result of one company’s actions and does not reflect the resilience or value of bitcoin and the digital currency industry. The best way to build trust in the 'resilience of Bitcoin' would be to leverage the blockchain technology to help document who lost what and monitor if/when any of those coins appear in the future. This is going to cost money as well as development time. It's one thing wax pious about how and why this happened and to say it must never happen again etc. But the best thing the exchanges could do for their long-term credibility would be to each put up a chunk of cash and engage an expensive law firm to set up a trust and audit the whole affair as completely as possible. That's going to require a collective commitment of of a million dollars, or possibly a few million. It's either that or get put under the microscope of existing financial regulators on their schedule, which (IMHO) will relegate BTC to the status of a disaffection currency that is only convertible in fringe markets.

NickSharp 13y ago

And now coinbase.com is down. Not a good sign...

iamchmod 13y ago

Wow! I can see a misguided politician already saying something like "Maybe all bitcoin exchanges/wallets/etc need money transmitter licenses or FDIC insurance"

busterzzz 13y ago

Why did coin base issue one statement, take it down seconds later, and issue almost the same statement with some slight differences. See if you can tell the difference.http://openxrptalk.org/topic/102/mtgox-original-unaltered-insolvency-statement#701 http://openxrptalk.org/topic/102/mtgox-original-unaltered-in...

thinkcomp 13y ago

My response: http://www.aarongreenspan.com/writing/essay.html?id=100 http://www.aarongreenspan.com/writing/essay.html?id=100

_pmf_ 13y ago

> We strongly believe in transparent, thoughtful, and comprehensive consumer protection measures. We pledge to lead the way. Words are cheap.

chrisBob 13y ago

Is it possible to fine the bit coins that were stolen and then effectively devalue them? One thing the miners should be able to do is refuse to verify transactions with the stolen BTC.

danielweber 13y ago
There is always that option. But what if you got some bitcoins today that turned out to have been stolen two months ago? It might be a good idea, but it's antithetical to the community.

fixermark 13y ago

So it seems, in essence, that the fundamental issue is that MtGox became "Too big to fail," and this is what the repercussions on a currency market of the failure of a large and trusted institution look like. It's an interesting object lesson for armchair economists, and I'm sure some hay will be made drawing comparisons to the US housing market crash and the value of the dollar.

bakhy 13y ago

isn't the bitcoin scene beginning to resemble a modern government in recession? carefully crafted statements, avoiding to say much, but very reassuring... markets be praised! the leaked "Crisis Strategy Draft" slideshow seems like it was actually authored by these companies, not MtGox.

whileonebegin 13y ago

"So, my Coinbase account was hacked, bitcoin stolen, now what?" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6946832 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6946832 FYI, after some time, Coinbase followed up with my support ticket and said tough luck, bitcoins lost, better luck next time. No mention was made of any effort to track-down the hacker or fraudulent transaction. They probably didn't even block the hacker's IP address. And yet, Coinbase declares, "We strongly believe in transparent, thoughtful, and comprehensive consumer protection measures. We pledge to lead the way."

pdovy 13y ago

I think there should be some discussion about setting up a SIPC equivalent for Bitcoin exchanges. Each exchange/operator contributes dues that provide a fund for compensating losses in the event of a member's insolvency. That would also provide a strong incentive to for members cry fowl about bad practices, self-audit, etc.

VikingCoder 13y ago

So the story goes: The new Russian President found a note in the desk of the old Russian President, "To my successor: When you find yourself in a hopeless situation which you cannot escape, open the first letter, and it will save you. Later, when you again find yourself in a hopeless situation from which you cannot escape, open the second letter." A few months later, there was a massive problem. The new Russian President opened the first letter, which said, "Blame it all on me." He did. It worked great. A little bit later, there was another massive problem. The new Russian President opened the second letter, which said, "Sit down, and write two letters." I feel like this is the Bitcoin community collectively blaming the old Russian President. (Never mind the inherent flaws in the system.)

jamesk_au 13y ago

Note that the "industry leaders" who "stand by this statement" have published slightly different variations of it. See, for example, Circle's statement[1], which styles itself as a joint statement regarding "the Insolvency of Mt.Gox", and describes Mt Gox's actions as "abhorrent". At the end of Circle's statement, after listing some of the high standards to which Bitcoin custodians should be held, the author(s) make this observation: "It does not appear to any of us that MtGox followed any these essential requirements as a financial services provider." The statements of Kraken[2], BTC China[3] and Blockchain.info[4] also describe Mt Gox's actions as "abhorrent" and make the same observation about Mt Gox in relation to its compliance with appropriate standards. Coinbase's statement[5], on the other hand, does not use "abhorrent" and does not express any view on whether Mt Gox complied with the "essential requirements" of a Bitcoin custodian. But the Coinbase statement does include this sentence: "Mtgox has confirmed its issues in private discussions with other members of the bitcoin community". That sentence is conspicuously absent from the other statements. Finally, the Bitstamp.net[6] statement is completely different. It says that the "known losses" of fiat currency and Bitcoin "are limited to those balances that were in MtGox's care", and that Mt Gox "can best explain how this happened". The names of the industry leaders appear at the bottom of each statement. Have they signed off on all of them? Did some leaders edit the "joint" statement to avoid potentially defaming Mt Gox? Or do some of them know something we don't? --- [1] Circle: http://www.circle.com/2014/02/24/joint-statement-regarding-insolvency-mt-gox/ http://www.circle.com/2014/02/24/joint-statement-regarding-i... [2] Kraken: http://www.reddit.com/r/Kraken/comments/1yux6n/joint_statement_regarding_mt_gox/ http://www.reddit.com/r/Kraken/comments/1yux6n/joint_stateme... [3] BTC China: https://vip.btcchina.com/page/notice20140225 https://vip.btcchina.com/page/notice20140225 [4] Blockchain.info: http://blog.blockchain.info/2014/02/25/joint-statement/ http://blog.blockchain.info/2014/02/25/joint-statement/ [5] Coinbase: http://blog.coinbase.com/post/77766809700/joint-statement-regarding-the-insolvency-of-mtgox http://blog.coinbase.com/post/77766809700/joint-statement-re... [6] Bitstamp.net: https://www.bitstamp.net/article/Statement-by-Bitstamp-regarding-MtGox-insolv/ https://www.bitstamp.net/article/Statement-by-Bitstamp-regar...