5 ms·

That doesn't explain why internet speeds suck in NYC.

res0nat0r 13y ago
Population density in NYC and SFO actually hurt new rollouts. That is why those places and Los Angeles will probably be dead last on a Google Fiber rollout (if ever). The old NYC infrastructure and all of the physical work (and permits, contracts, everything else) means a huge overhaul would most likely not be worth doing in dense and already wired places like these. Also rayiner pointed out in another thread that according to Akamai the US already is pretty high up in the list of overall bandwidth. Also I think the HN / Reddit / tech echo chamber overplays the demand for gigabit internet. Most of America has no need for this, nor the willingness to pay for a connection this fast. 10-25 Mb is fine for most people. Browse Facebook, surf the web, stream a couple of movies, play games.
- fixed_input 13y ago
  I would be willing to pay for a gigabit connection if the prices were lower. In Japan and South Korea for instance, a consumer can get a gigabit connection for the equivalent of about 40USD. I currently pay more for a connection 1/20th the speed. If their telcos can do it, ours can too. However ours want us to pay more (much, much more) for gigabit, which is why there is the argument that Americans don't want to pay for gigabit. Yeah, charge a reasonable price and you'll have more demand for gigabit speeds.
- res0nat0r 13y ago
  Also: I know my dissent in pointing out that gigabit internet for $30/month everywhere in the USA isn't going to magically happen isn't popular around here, but you shouldn't down vote something you disagree with.
  - dublinben 13y ago
    You're being downvoted because you're wrong. Density is a red herring that can be easily demonstrated by looking at comparative examples.
    - res0nat0r 13y ago
      A single city in another country is apples and oranges, it is wrong to assume that since a single city in another country can do it, then it should be simple to implement across the USA or in cities which are wholly different politically in the US.
- reversi_online 13y ago
  Look, you can't have it both ways. Either population density helps or hinders a fiber rollout--if it helps, then why is the urban U.S.A. just as far behind as the rest? If it hinders, then why do HK and SK have it when NYC doesn't? As for the remainder--well of course they're not making use of a service that they have no way to buy in the first place...and your insinuations remind me of the people in the early 19th century who howled that the first locomotives' 10 mph crusing speed was far faster than any sane person would ever want to travel.
  - rayiner 13y ago
    The urbanized parts of the U.S. aren't behind in general. If the east coast states were countries, a number would be top-5 on Akamai's list for highest average bandwidth. As for HK and SK: there is only one city in the U.S. as dense as Hong Kong or Seoul, and that's NYC. And it has FIOS. So why does everywhere in NYC not have FIOS? Is it because of lobbying? No, its because building infrastructure in dense places requires coordination, and its just not a big political priority the way it is in Asian countries. Its why infrastructure projects of all kinds cost more in the U.S. from trains to telecom. In other countries, the government makes it a priority to remove roadblocks to infrastructure development, in a top down way. In the U.S., every infrastructure project becomes mired in NIMBYISM. Look in the back yard of Silicon Valley. Why isn't SF wired with gigabit. Is it because Comcast had more lobbying muscle than tech in tech's own back yard? Its an absurd proposition. The roadblock is instead the same dysfunctional government and the voters that complain about Google busses.
    - reversi_online 13y ago
      I must say your dichotomy between lobbying and political priorities is positively Martian. And I haven't noticed the U.S. public rallying in horrified opposition to faster internet speeds in a big way. Or at all, really.
      - res0nat0r 13y ago
        They haven't been rallying in support of it either.
rayiner 13y ago
Its a combination of density, economics, and politics. Japan/Korea are best case scenario. Not only very dense, but people believe in tech as a way forward economically. In the U.S., the places that are dense also have intractable politics. Outside the tech set, you're not going to sell San Franciscans on the idea that gigabit should be an important priority. They couldn't care less.
- w1ntermute 13y ago
  > Japan/Korea are best case scenario. Not only very dense, but people believe in tech as a way forward economically. This is a common misconception. When it comes to actually using technology, the Japanese are at least a decade behind the West, thanks to their aging, collectivist, and risk-averse society. Fax machines continue to be widely used[0]. The primary difference is that in Japan, the government nationalized the last mile, resulting in a ton of competition. You can pick between a dozen ISPs in Tokyo. 0: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/14/world/asia/in-japan-the-fax-machine-is-anything-but-a-relic.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/14/world/asia/in-japan-the-fa...
warfangle 13y ago
My internet speeds are pretty spiffy here in NYC; granted, not fiber spiffy. Of course, I'm with Cablevision - when most of the city is limited to TWC.

Population density in NYC and SFO actually hurt new rollouts. That is why those places and Los Angeles will probably be dead last on a Google Fiber rollout (if ever). The old NYC infrastructure and all of the physical work (and permits, contracts, everything else) means a huge overhaul would most likely not be worth doing in dense and already wired places like these. Also rayiner pointed out in another thread that according to Akamai the US already is pretty high up in the list of overall bandwidth. Also I think the HN / Reddit / tech echo chamber overplays the demand for gigabit internet. Most of America has no need for this, nor the willingness to pay for a connection this fast. 10-25 Mb is fine for most people. Browse Facebook, surf the web, stream a couple of movies, play games.

fixed_input 13y ago
I would be willing to pay for a gigabit connection if the prices were lower. In Japan and South Korea for instance, a consumer can get a gigabit connection for the equivalent of about 40USD. I currently pay more for a connection 1/20th the speed. If their telcos can do it, ours can too. However ours want us to pay more (much, much more) for gigabit, which is why there is the argument that Americans don't want to pay for gigabit. Yeah, charge a reasonable price and you'll have more demand for gigabit speeds.
res0nat0r 13y ago
Also: I know my dissent in pointing out that gigabit internet for $30/month everywhere in the USA isn't going to magically happen isn't popular around here, but you shouldn't down vote something you disagree with.
- dublinben 13y ago
  You're being downvoted because you're wrong. Density is a red herring that can be easily demonstrated by looking at comparative examples.
  - res0nat0r 13y ago
    A single city in another country is apples and oranges, it is wrong to assume that since a single city in another country can do it, then it should be simple to implement across the USA or in cities which are wholly different politically in the US.
reversi_online 13y ago
Look, you can't have it both ways. Either population density helps or hinders a fiber rollout--if it helps, then why is the urban U.S.A. just as far behind as the rest? If it hinders, then why do HK and SK have it when NYC doesn't? As for the remainder--well of course they're not making use of a service that they have no way to buy in the first place...and your insinuations remind me of the people in the early 19th century who howled that the first locomotives' 10 mph crusing speed was far faster than any sane person would ever want to travel.
- rayiner 13y ago
  The urbanized parts of the U.S. aren't behind in general. If the east coast states were countries, a number would be top-5 on Akamai's list for highest average bandwidth. As for HK and SK: there is only one city in the U.S. as dense as Hong Kong or Seoul, and that's NYC. And it has FIOS. So why does everywhere in NYC not have FIOS? Is it because of lobbying? No, its because building infrastructure in dense places requires coordination, and its just not a big political priority the way it is in Asian countries. Its why infrastructure projects of all kinds cost more in the U.S. from trains to telecom. In other countries, the government makes it a priority to remove roadblocks to infrastructure development, in a top down way. In the U.S., every infrastructure project becomes mired in NIMBYISM. Look in the back yard of Silicon Valley. Why isn't SF wired with gigabit. Is it because Comcast had more lobbying muscle than tech in tech's own back yard? Its an absurd proposition. The roadblock is instead the same dysfunctional government and the voters that complain about Google busses.
  - reversi_online 13y ago
    I must say your dichotomy between lobbying and political priorities is positively Martian. And I haven't noticed the U.S. public rallying in horrified opposition to faster internet speeds in a big way. Or at all, really.
    - res0nat0r 13y ago
      They haven't been rallying in support of it either.

rayiner 13y ago

Its a combination of density, economics, and politics. Japan/Korea are best case scenario. Not only very dense, but people believe in tech as a way forward economically. In the U.S., the places that are dense also have intractable politics. Outside the tech set, you're not going to sell San Franciscans on the idea that gigabit should be an important priority. They couldn't care less.

w1ntermute 13y ago
> Japan/Korea are best case scenario. Not only very dense, but people believe in tech as a way forward economically. This is a common misconception. When it comes to actually using technology, the Japanese are at least a decade behind the West, thanks to their aging, collectivist, and risk-averse society. Fax machines continue to be widely used[0]. The primary difference is that in Japan, the government nationalized the last mile, resulting in a ton of competition. You can pick between a dozen ISPs in Tokyo. 0: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/14/world/asia/in-japan-the-fax-machine-is-anything-but-a-relic.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/14/world/asia/in-japan-the-fa...

warfangle 13y ago

My internet speeds are pretty spiffy here in NYC; granted, not fiber spiffy. Of course, I'm with Cablevision - when most of the city is limited to TWC.