6 ms·

WhatsApp to launch voice calling in the second quarter

40 points by harel 13y ago

aleem 13y ago
I have mixed feelings about this. I like WhatsApp because they fixed SMS (by adding group chat and cheaper messaging). I also like the fact that they do one thing and do it really well (ala DropBox). The client is light and fast. I can use it a dozen times a day and it doesn't get in the way. Skype, et al by contrast are bloated because every new release must add new features. By the time version 20.0 comes out, it's bloated. Same thing keeps happening over and over again with torrent clients. It happened with WinAmp and to MS Word and nearly every other software that gets popular. You can almost see the thinking machinery in work. "450 million users? How much are we making per user? $1 per user per year, that's it? Let's get into VoIP, it's a billion trillion dollar per annum industry. Let's get the project managers to layout the roadmap for the next year and set the milestones so we can get there fast."
- netcan 13y ago
  This is kind of interesting since facebook is finding that getting all your features into a single app is not necessarily the best approach.
- enscr 13y ago
  Whatsapp's footprint (memory & battery) on Android is negligible. I love that it just silently works in the background. If I wanted Skype, I'd be installing Skype, so please Whatsapp, do what you do best. Oh wait, there's that new manager of yours who wants to be a part of everyone's private lives. So long.
- dethstar 13y ago
  Your project either dies young and does one thing really well or lives long enough to become an OS of it's own.
adnam 13y ago
That's nice, but will you be able to make free, unlimited calls to all US, UK and Canadian mobiles + landlines, like you already can with Upptalk.com? ;)
- adnam 13y ago
  Which was obviously a horrific thing to say.
hnha 13y ago
if only ios would allow background processes like a real computer. we could have perfect free and open source communications via or based on xmpp.
- stephenr 13y ago
  iOS allows VoIP apps to be backgrounded.
  - pilif 13y ago
    At which point the battery drains significantly more quickly than without. At least Skype is a real battery drainer.
- callumjones 13y ago
  But iOS isn't running on a real computer that has a either a large battery or a mains power source, it's running on a small device with a battery that is expected by users to last at least a day. iOS' current backgrounding APIs strike a fairly acceptable balance between functional background tasks and battery life. Let's say if Apple took the reigns off background in iOS, we'd see some app developers ravage the battery and see users having terrible device experience.
- clemsen 13y ago
  Actually I am quite happy that background processes are relatively restricted on iOS. When an incoming call is received the corresponding push notification should be fast enough. If all clients on my phone had to talk to their server individually the battery would be empty in no time.
  - untog 13y ago
    When an incoming call is received the corresponding push notification should be fast enough. Eh, not really. You get the notification (no guaranteed delivery time), open it up, it opens up the app, which takes a few seconds to load... before you know it the other person is going to have hung up.
- 13y ago
mbesto 13y ago
The reaction from the BigTelco will be interesting to say the least.
rawr_reptar 13y ago
I'm not that surprised though. Line and KakaoTalk both implemented voice call between users this past year. I think WeChat is working on this too. I'd actually consider WhatsApp behind its Asian competitors in terms of features. They also might be an indicator of what features we might see roll out with WhatsApp.
zaidf 13y ago
I will not complain if WhatsApp makes an attempt at killing all the shitty chat apps such as Skype that are riding on their initial success but suck as a product. It boggles my mind why skype randomly pops notifications on my iPhone for messages sent to me months ago.
- mistermann 13y ago
  Oh god do I agree, I could write pages on the different ways in which Skype sucks. Just one example....when the connection is bad, it degrades audio and video, so neither is usable. And we won't even start on the nightmare that's the UI. That MS paid a king's ransom for this and has done nothing with it since boggles the mind.
  - err4nt 13y ago
    When Microsoft purchased Skype they weren't buying software, they were buying users back who use to use MSN Messenger before jumping ship. AIM (AOL's chat client) was only popular in the US, the rest of the world used MSN for years and it finally died in favour of Skype and gTalk. This was their best way of killing MSN messenger, and rolling their remaining users into a useful userbase. That's why the only addition to Skype has been logging in with your Microsoft ID. Microsoft also has a product called 'Lync' that (from what I've heard) is not doing so well, so I believe their goal there again is to roll their users into Skype and eventually discontinue that product. Buying Skype was all about trying to salvage their brand from the shortcomings of their own software.
    - radicalbyte 13y ago
      They've federated Lync and Skype; so you can call Skype users with Lync (and visa versa), and so your boss can log all of your personal chats :) It's doing pretty well in its market (Enterprise) because despite the demands (federation requires two servers) it's better than the competition (WebEx). The client is slightly less annoying than Skype if only for the fact that it doesn't take over your entire computer for IM like the new Skype client does.
amalag 13y ago
Viber already has voice and messaging, WhatsApp just has more users.
- JTon 13y ago
  Network effect is important though
  - adnam 13y ago
    Agreed, but the regulatory effect is potentially bigger. In many places Whatsapp will not simply be able to roll out telephony services without the OK of the local regulator. I expect them to dis-activate VOIP for many countries initially, otherwise be a loggerheads with authorities (eventually). Will be interesting to see what happens.
ulfw 13y ago
It's a pity Apple didn't opensource or at release for other platforms Facetime and iMesssages. Both are really very well integrated Audio/Video/Texting apps that work and look better than a third-party tool like Whatsapp
- k-mcgrady 13y ago
  At the announcement Jobs said the FaceTime protocol would be released but it never was. I love FaceTime but locking it down to just iOS/Mac makes it so much less useful. I can understand why they want to use it to sell more iPhones but I wish they'd at least add a web or Windows client. It wouldn't hurt iPhone sales, probably wouldn't effect Mac sales, and so many more people could use FaceTime.
- justinsb 13y ago
  If I was responsible for this decision at Apple, I would definitely be much more open to doing this now (post-WhatsApp). I'd hope Google and Apple are at least trying to get first-class interoperability between iOS / Android. Maybe only for text and not voice/video, but otherwise Facebook / WhatsApp wins the space.
- ubercow13 13y ago
  I disagree, iMessage is much slower on poor network connections (and fast ones) for me than WhatsApp, and it is certainly much less reliable. It will fail consistently unless I have 3G coverage, where WhatsApp works fine on a GPRS signal. The only advantage it has for me is the ability to send larger size pictures.
thepumpkin1979 13y ago
Maybe is going after Line and Viber, not Skype.
k-mcgrady 13y ago
Facebook seems to be making a play to own all our communications. If this replaces SMS and then voice calls for people that's most communications locked up. The only thing they are missing is email which they've tried and failed on.
rch 13y ago
Is there a reason Skype and soon WhatsApp can do this, but Voice needs to connect through a phone? I might guess antiquated taxes or, more likely deals with carriers, because I can make calls with gmail from my laptop after all.
- meritt 13y ago
  WhatsApp to WhatsApp will just be a data stream. WhatsApp to Phone will need to touch a phone network at some point for call completion. When you make calls from within gmail, your endpoint is a google server but google is still making a regular telephone call and just bridging the two.
- tracker1 13y ago
  I can only guess that Google likes to tie your account to a real phone number for Voice... when I activated my Azure account (I have MSDN via work), they required a real phone number... This may also be a regulatory request from the U.S. Govt. If you call in a bomb threat from Voice, the gov't can track you down.
  - rch 13y ago
    I'm perfectly alright with the verification step, but it would be nice to be able to ditch the handset from time to time.
amiune 13y ago
I don't know if this is a good idea. Jerry Seinfeld is clear, nobody wants to talk anymore https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xR1ckgXN8G0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xR1ckgXN8G0 :D
Uehreka 13y ago
I just got off an overseas voice call with my parents. We've been using Skype forever, and it drops calls constantly. Tonight it was particularly bad, so I googled around for a WebRTC client, found this (https://vline.com/ https://vline.com/) and told my mom to use it. Immediately the call was clear as day. It dropped once or twice, but the quality was pretty high otherwise. If I can find a WebRTC client with a few more features, I may never use Skype (or any other XMPP video chat) again.
- tracker1 13y ago
  WebRTC is pretty cool and it will be interesting to see where it goes, and how well it works with multiple users. One thing I actually miss from before the bots took over and everyone left, was the chat rooms and group chats in yahoo messenger. It was audio only, but was pretty nice. I've played with it a little on my phone even, and though it barely works, you can see the potential. All I can say from it all, it would be nice if MS/IE could play better with others.
neotrinity 13y ago
Need to wait and see if this service will bloat the app. Till now WhatsApp has worked wonderfully as a connection bus between friends and relatives. Don't know if this decision was rammed down WhatsApp's throat by FB ??

40 points by harel 13y ago

aleem 13y ago

I have mixed feelings about this. I like WhatsApp because they fixed SMS (by adding group chat and cheaper messaging). I also like the fact that they do one thing and do it really well (ala DropBox). The client is light and fast. I can use it a dozen times a day and it doesn't get in the way. Skype, et al by contrast are bloated because every new release must add new features. By the time version 20.0 comes out, it's bloated. Same thing keeps happening over and over again with torrent clients. It happened with WinAmp and to MS Word and nearly every other software that gets popular. You can almost see the thinking machinery in work. "450 million users? How much are we making per user? $1 per user per year, that's it? Let's get into VoIP, it's a billion trillion dollar per annum industry. Let's get the project managers to layout the roadmap for the next year and set the milestones so we can get there fast."

netcan 13y ago
This is kind of interesting since facebook is finding that getting all your features into a single app is not necessarily the best approach.
enscr 13y ago
Whatsapp's footprint (memory & battery) on Android is negligible. I love that it just silently works in the background. If I wanted Skype, I'd be installing Skype, so please Whatsapp, do what you do best. Oh wait, there's that new manager of yours who wants to be a part of everyone's private lives. So long.
dethstar 13y ago
Your project either dies young and does one thing really well or lives long enough to become an OS of it's own.

adnam 13y ago

That's nice, but will you be able to make free, unlimited calls to all US, UK and Canadian mobiles + landlines, like you already can with Upptalk.com? ;)

adnam 13y ago
Which was obviously a horrific thing to say.

hnha 13y ago

if only ios would allow background processes like a real computer. we could have perfect free and open source communications via or based on xmpp.

stephenr 13y ago
iOS allows VoIP apps to be backgrounded.
- pilif 13y ago
  At which point the battery drains significantly more quickly than without. At least Skype is a real battery drainer.
callumjones 13y ago
But iOS isn't running on a real computer that has a either a large battery or a mains power source, it's running on a small device with a battery that is expected by users to last at least a day. iOS' current backgrounding APIs strike a fairly acceptable balance between functional background tasks and battery life. Let's say if Apple took the reigns off background in iOS, we'd see some app developers ravage the battery and see users having terrible device experience.
clemsen 13y ago
Actually I am quite happy that background processes are relatively restricted on iOS. When an incoming call is received the corresponding push notification should be fast enough. If all clients on my phone had to talk to their server individually the battery would be empty in no time.
- untog 13y ago
  When an incoming call is received the corresponding push notification should be fast enough. Eh, not really. You get the notification (no guaranteed delivery time), open it up, it opens up the app, which takes a few seconds to load... before you know it the other person is going to have hung up.
13y ago

mbesto 13y ago

The reaction from the BigTelco will be interesting to say the least.

rawr_reptar 13y ago

I'm not that surprised though. Line and KakaoTalk both implemented voice call between users this past year. I think WeChat is working on this too. I'd actually consider WhatsApp behind its Asian competitors in terms of features. They also might be an indicator of what features we might see roll out with WhatsApp.

zaidf 13y ago

I will not complain if WhatsApp makes an attempt at killing all the shitty chat apps such as Skype that are riding on their initial success but suck as a product. It boggles my mind why skype randomly pops notifications on my iPhone for messages sent to me months ago.

mistermann 13y ago
Oh god do I agree, I could write pages on the different ways in which Skype sucks. Just one example....when the connection is bad, it degrades audio and video, so neither is usable. And we won't even start on the nightmare that's the UI. That MS paid a king's ransom for this and has done nothing with it since boggles the mind.
- err4nt 13y ago
  When Microsoft purchased Skype they weren't buying software, they were buying users back who use to use MSN Messenger before jumping ship. AIM (AOL's chat client) was only popular in the US, the rest of the world used MSN for years and it finally died in favour of Skype and gTalk. This was their best way of killing MSN messenger, and rolling their remaining users into a useful userbase. That's why the only addition to Skype has been logging in with your Microsoft ID. Microsoft also has a product called 'Lync' that (from what I've heard) is not doing so well, so I believe their goal there again is to roll their users into Skype and eventually discontinue that product. Buying Skype was all about trying to salvage their brand from the shortcomings of their own software.
  - radicalbyte 13y ago
    They've federated Lync and Skype; so you can call Skype users with Lync (and visa versa), and so your boss can log all of your personal chats :) It's doing pretty well in its market (Enterprise) because despite the demands (federation requires two servers) it's better than the competition (WebEx). The client is slightly less annoying than Skype if only for the fact that it doesn't take over your entire computer for IM like the new Skype client does.

amalag 13y ago

Viber already has voice and messaging, WhatsApp just has more users.

JTon 13y ago
Network effect is important though
- adnam 13y ago
  Agreed, but the regulatory effect is potentially bigger. In many places Whatsapp will not simply be able to roll out telephony services without the OK of the local regulator. I expect them to dis-activate VOIP for many countries initially, otherwise be a loggerheads with authorities (eventually). Will be interesting to see what happens.

ulfw 13y ago

It's a pity Apple didn't opensource or at release for other platforms Facetime and iMesssages. Both are really very well integrated Audio/Video/Texting apps that work and look better than a third-party tool like Whatsapp

k-mcgrady 13y ago
At the announcement Jobs said the FaceTime protocol would be released but it never was. I love FaceTime but locking it down to just iOS/Mac makes it so much less useful. I can understand why they want to use it to sell more iPhones but I wish they'd at least add a web or Windows client. It wouldn't hurt iPhone sales, probably wouldn't effect Mac sales, and so many more people could use FaceTime.
justinsb 13y ago
If I was responsible for this decision at Apple, I would definitely be much more open to doing this now (post-WhatsApp). I'd hope Google and Apple are at least trying to get first-class interoperability between iOS / Android. Maybe only for text and not voice/video, but otherwise Facebook / WhatsApp wins the space.
ubercow13 13y ago
I disagree, iMessage is much slower on poor network connections (and fast ones) for me than WhatsApp, and it is certainly much less reliable. It will fail consistently unless I have 3G coverage, where WhatsApp works fine on a GPRS signal. The only advantage it has for me is the ability to send larger size pictures.

thepumpkin1979 13y ago

Maybe is going after Line and Viber, not Skype.

k-mcgrady 13y ago

Facebook seems to be making a play to own all our communications. If this replaces SMS and then voice calls for people that's most communications locked up. The only thing they are missing is email which they've tried and failed on.

rch 13y ago

Is there a reason Skype and soon WhatsApp can do this, but Voice needs to connect through a phone? I might guess antiquated taxes or, more likely deals with carriers, because I can make calls with gmail from my laptop after all.

meritt 13y ago
WhatsApp to WhatsApp will just be a data stream. WhatsApp to Phone will need to touch a phone network at some point for call completion. When you make calls from within gmail, your endpoint is a google server but google is still making a regular telephone call and just bridging the two.
tracker1 13y ago
I can only guess that Google likes to tie your account to a real phone number for Voice... when I activated my Azure account (I have MSDN via work), they required a real phone number... This may also be a regulatory request from the U.S. Govt. If you call in a bomb threat from Voice, the gov't can track you down.
- rch 13y ago
  I'm perfectly alright with the verification step, but it would be nice to be able to ditch the handset from time to time.

amiune 13y ago

I don't know if this is a good idea. Jerry Seinfeld is clear, nobody wants to talk anymore https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xR1ckgXN8G0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xR1ckgXN8G0 :D

Uehreka 13y ago

I just got off an overseas voice call with my parents. We've been using Skype forever, and it drops calls constantly. Tonight it was particularly bad, so I googled around for a WebRTC client, found this (https://vline.com/ https://vline.com/) and told my mom to use it. Immediately the call was clear as day. It dropped once or twice, but the quality was pretty high otherwise. If I can find a WebRTC client with a few more features, I may never use Skype (or any other XMPP video chat) again.

tracker1 13y ago
WebRTC is pretty cool and it will be interesting to see where it goes, and how well it works with multiple users. One thing I actually miss from before the bots took over and everyone left, was the chat rooms and group chats in yahoo messenger. It was audio only, but was pretty nice. I've played with it a little on my phone even, and though it barely works, you can see the potential. All I can say from it all, it would be nice if MS/IE could play better with others.

neotrinity 13y ago

Need to wait and see if this service will bloat the app. Till now WhatsApp has worked wonderfully as a connection bus between friends and relatives. Don't know if this decision was rammed down WhatsApp's throat by FB ??