12 ms·

Nokia announces the X and X+, its first Android phones

230 points by wzsddtc 13y ago

brunnsbe 13y ago
Here is a link to the press release: http://press.nokia.com/2014/02/24/nokia-connects-the-next-billion-with-affordable-smartphones/ http://press.nokia.com/2014/02/24/nokia-connects-the-next-bi...
Geee 13y ago
And third, 5-inch Nokia XL. All priced 10 euros apart starting from 89€.
TazeTSchnitzel 13y ago
Forked AOSP? So, getting apps from Ovi store?
- d0 13y ago
  I hope not. Ovi was a right pile of crap.
- Aoyagi 13y ago
  Ovi Store has been frozen a few weeks (months?) back, so no updates for MeeGo/Symbian applications through that.
igravious 13y ago
So Microsoft has a Linux distro. Interesting. Anybody care to hazard a guess what the future holds? My take is that this was well in development before the MS/Nokia deal went through (it has gone through, hasn't it?) and Microsoft were not (have not been) able to get it canned. Or, shock, horror, maybe Microsoft are testing the waters - they already make a bunch from Linux patents, maybe they want to see how much they'll make from App Store revenue if these gain a decent market share. When you think about it, Apple doesn't charge for iOS so if Microsoft start doing decent hardware sales maybe Microsoft will start considering its mobile operating system division this way. Given recent news that Microsoft has to discount Windows licences on lower cost hardware to compete with Chromebooks we're starting to see that Microsoft even though it is making money hand over fist is in an untenable position. A few questions. How will Microsoft not be able to develop Mobile Office for Android? How are Microsoft going to be able to maintain two mobile OSs? Are Nokia going to see this through? I think it is a smart play, if they go after it whole-heartedly like Amazon and provide a decent amount of differentiation. One could easily see Samsung going this route.
- d0 13y ago
  Microsoft (and their staff individually) actually contribute to the Linux kernel so this isn't that crazy. You can already get office 365 for iOS. Not sure about android but it's logical. This appears to be the budget/developing world side of things. I'd prefer to see WinPhone on low end devices to be honest - it's really good even on low spec handsets. I see this as that much marketed "devices and services offering" they are always going on about. They're making a killing from Azure etc and Windows Live/outlook.com is the most mature and featureful cloud thing. They're actually shit hot these days. I still prefer my old fashioned Unix way of life though as I don't want to become a paid up ecosystem slave.
  - blueskin_ 13y ago
    Nobody I know uses Microsoft's lockin. Some prefer google's or apple's, but increasing numbers are trying to escape from being a data source for advertising and the NSA and ditching google, apple, and MS.
    - igravious 13y ago
      I agree that this is the next hurdle. To just from Microsoft's desktop embrace to Google's cloud embrace is to switch one master for another even though Google has shown itself to be an excellent open-source champion in terms of their Summer of Code effort and the amount of client (and server?) software they develop in the open. But lock-in is lock-in no matter how comfy the handcuffs.
      - igravious 13y ago
        To just _leap_ from I must at least cursorily proofread my comments. I must at least cursorily proofread my comments. ...
- m0nastic 13y ago
  How will Microsoft not be able to develop Mobile Office for Android? By most reporting[1], the office team has already had versions of office for iOS (and presumably Android) ready for quite some time. Their lack of release has been an internal political battle at Microsoft based on whether to postpone them until after the equivalent office apps are ready for RT. This is one of the biggest examples of decision making that people have been criticizing Microsoft for (handicapping their non-Windows business units to provide Windows a competitive advantage; which is a sensible strategy, but that seems ill-suited longterm, as those other business units like Office now eclipse Windows in revenue). It's entirely possible that part of Nokia releasing this phone is related to that recent shift in strategy. How are Microsoft going to be able to maintain two mobile OSs? Nokia already has experience in managing operating systems. I don't know how much work "porting" over all the Nokia apps was to Android, but it seems like they've done it. They already went through the experience of porting many of them over from Symbian (and alas, Maemo didn't really have much in the way of Nokia apps). I don't think this is a serious issue for their engineering organization (even aside from Microsoft's much larger engineering organization that presumably could be made available). Are Nokia going to see this through? I think it is a smart play, if they go after it whole-heartedly like Amazon and provide a decent amount of differentiation. One could easily see Samsung going this route. I think this is a logical play from a risk perspective. The low-end is currently where all their sales are (as the mid and high end have dried up faster than their increasing Windows Phone sales have grown); and even though the low-end isn't the desirable part of the market (see every phone manufacturer other than Apple and Samsung as examples), the effort required isn't much greater than they're already doing for the Asha lines. I think they'll have a better chance at building an ecosystem that's piggy-backed off of Android than in building their own. I still don't know that this is a great long-term play, but it could be. Samsung has been alleged to be heading in this direction for ages (first reported as the reasons for them releasing Bada, and later, Tizen). The new Gear 2 watch-thing runs Tizen instead of Android (which considering it's not really a stand-alone device, is probably a good place to test the waters). It seems like the issue with Samsung taking the plunge is how much they attribute their recent success to their own products, vs. the Google ecosystem. Once they cross that threshold, they'll ship their own OS with TouchWiz on top of it. Maybe they'll similarly have an environment that can run Android apps (it's all Linux underneath). [1] http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-office-on-ipad-its-alive-and-coming-sooner-than-most-think-7000026372/ http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-office-on-ipad-its-alive-and-...
d0 13y ago
Is this non-Microsoft Nokia or Microsoft's handset division. If it's the former, I will guffaw loudly in the direction of Microsoft!
- sirkneeland 13y ago
  it's the latter.
tdicola 13y ago
How long will this realistically last in the new MS-owned Nokia? Will it have the same fate as the Kin?
akumen 13y ago
This is the most confused device ever. A bastard child of Android and Windows: basterdised verion of Windows Phone UI on top of a forked Android that's integrated with Microsoft Cloud. The marketing has a distinct "feature phone" feel. Seriously, Asha or X device from Nokia with Firefox OS would make more sense than this. How many OSs does Nokia have now? 4 or 5?
- Aoyagi 13y ago
  I don't think they plan making any new S40 phones, so that would make it two OSes.
  - akumen 13y ago
    I counted four. Feature phone OS (ODM), Asha, Windows Phone and Nokia X Platform as they are calling it.
    - Aoyagi 13y ago
      The "featurephone" OS is S40 and it's in both "classic" phones (e.g. 515) and Ashas.... unless there is something I've missed completely. And come to think of it, I haven't heard any confirmation of closing the production of S40 phones, so I guess that'd make it 3.
      - eq- 13y ago
        The OS in the most basic of Nokia phones is commonly referred to as S30. It doesn't really need much active maintenance, though, because they mostly only change graphics and included games (and utilities) between those phones.
        Aoyagi 13y ago
        Huh, I didn't even know of its existence. But yeah, turns out things like Nokia 105 run on S30. I have to try that someday, heh.
      - 13y ago
est 13y ago
spec: http://conversations.nokia.com/2014/02/24/nokia-x-family/ http://conversations.nokia.com/2014/02/24/nokia-x-family/ Looks rather poor. 800x480px on a 5-inch screen would be painful.
- Aoyagi 13y ago
  It's supposed to be very cheap'o. MS (and by that Nokia) is focusing on "fast-growing emerging markets" a lot.
  - GFischer 13y ago
    And they're right to do that :) . A "base of the pyramid" attack on Apple and Samsung sounds like their only option. Only Samsung and chinese companies are cornering that market, which was formerly Nokias'.
  - pekk 13y ago
    Nokia has a big advantage in emerging markets where cheap phones are needed
- okasaki 13y ago
  Painful? 190PPI isn't great but it's far from painful.
  - vidarh 13y ago
    It is once you've gotten used to a higher PPI device.
- tragic 13y ago
  The Lumia 820 was 800x480 on a 4.3" screen, and I found it perfectly pleasant to use. 5" would be adequate for that end of the market. It was less pleasant when I dropped it a foot and a half onto a carpeted floor and the screen cracked irreparably. Maybe the idea is to recapture that market they used to dominate, of low-cost, robust phones with the very basics. (And snake.) Nowadays, of course, the 'very basics' includes web, email and suchlike. But not everybody wants the latest fad phone-game; they want their phones to, shock horror, communicate with people. Maybe they'll find a market that would otherwise go to the most rock-bottom terrible android handsets; pretty sure it'll be a better product than those. Maybe they'll fail. Given it's where they excelled in the past, though, you can't blame them for trying.
arocks 13y ago
Without Play Store and the ability to sideload Android apps (via .APK), you can expect a proliferation of pirated Android applications for the Nokia phones. Once again, Microsoft will enable the creation of a thriving anti-virus industry.
- abitsios 13y ago
  Coming soon: Windows Defender Mobile NAndroid Edition (Personal|Professional|Ultimate)
- sudomal 13y ago
  It sounds like an ideal CyanogenMOD candidate. A phone from an iconic manufacturer that's already running Android and needs to be opened up a bit.
quanticle 13y ago
Ars Technica [1] put it best. These phones are dead on arrival. This is not the first time Nokia has done something like this. It released a Meego version of the N9, its long-in-development Symbian successor, before immediately abandoning the platform and switching to Windows Phone. This isn't a sign of some deep strategy. It's just standard Nokia platform craziness. 1: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/02/nokia-to-release-an-android-phone-this-month/ http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/02/nokia-to-release-an-a...
- Aoyagi 13y ago
  MeeGo was a) successor of Maemo on N900 (and other devices) and b) abandoned, because "burning bridges".
  - cdooh 13y ago
    It was abandoned because "internal politics"
    - Aoyagi 13y ago
      Funny how those internal politics are internal only now that MS bought Nokia, isn't it?
      - hatu 13y ago
        Nokia's got a long history of internal turf wars. I'm sure it was Symbian vs Meego without Microsoft being in the picture.
      - cdooh 13y ago
        The all powerful, at the time anyway, Symbian team didn't like competition and did everything they could to muck up Maemo/Meego development.
  - sirkneeland 13y ago
    "burning platform" not "burning bridges" (although the number of bridges burned between Nokia leadership and employees, suppliers, developers, distributors/retailers and carriers was nothing short of astonishing. And catastrophic).
awjr 13y ago
From what I can tell, this is aimed at 3rd world countries. I'm guessing Microsoft did not want to put their OS on a device that won't have top performance as well.
ulfw 13y ago
Such a pointless release that will only lead to customer confusion. I bet those will be cancelled as soon as the MSFT purchase (finally) closes. Just goes to show why Nokia has been sold off. Sad.
- Noughmad 13y ago
  It may be a negotiating tactic. You know, you need us more than we need you.
  - ulfw 13y ago
    Negotiate with whom?
aviraldg 13y ago
Embrace, extend, extinguish...
CmonDev 13y ago
It's good to see an Engadget link again. TheVerge is turning into a hipster political magazine...
- sirkneeland 13y ago
  Glad I'm not the only one who finds the Verge's foray into politics to be wholly unwelcome.
blueskin_ 13y ago
Weak specs, no physical buttons, and one of the two missing an SD card. I predict these will not do well. Edit: Oh, and the interface is awful. The sensible thing would have been to use Android as inspiration to redesign Metro to be less ugly and nonfunctional, not to try and port Metro to Android...
NicoJuicy 13y ago
Weird. Microsoft intended to handle Android as a non-primary platform. I'm curious if those apps are going to be available on the Google Play Store as well (i hope so). With this move, they should have update apps on the Android platform. Also, i'm curious if developers have to change their Android APP UI to fit the new UI from Nokia (could be dangerous for Nokia). Next, Android users all have a gmail account, now they need to switch to Outlook ? Not exactly user-friendly. Most developers have to change their Authentication also on their app.
steele 13y ago
If the camera is as good as the other Lumias and this can be flashed w/ CM, count me first in line at the fire sale
- eurleif 13y ago
  >3-megapixel camera :/
  - baq 13y ago
    pixels without sensor size are meaningless. a 3 megapixel camera that has good dynamic range and can shoot reasonable shutter speed at low isos in low light would be much better in a phone than a 15 mpix.
- taude 13y ago
  I was hoping for that 41 megapixel camera that seems to be pretty excellent...that would have been interesting.
raveli 13y ago
Divide and conquer. By making any success with its Android phones, Microsoft can achieve two goals: - further fragment the Android platform making it more difficult for users to buy devices and for developers to support the various devices and - benefit from Android's strong market position instead of only trying to create market for Windows phones in places where it doesn't fit They've identified the greatest flaw in Android ecosystem and they're exploiting it in an attempt to make their own offering more attractive in the long run.
- fauigerzigerk 13y ago
  Divide yes, but as for the conquer part we'll have to wait and see. It seems to me that they might confuse themselves and their own customers more than anyone else with that convoluted strategy. They identified Android's greatest flaw and swiftly added it to their own ecosystem.
jigneshlg 13y ago
From business point of view i am bit curious to know why microsoft is started using Android OS? Android owned by Google and the biggest competitor of Microsoft. Despite of having nice operating system like Windows mobile, they are trying Android ! This gives good sign of co-operation between giants. Share your thoughts !
- bskap 13y ago
  The Nokia/Microsoft deal hasn't completely gone through yet. Until it does, Microsoft is not legally allowed to have any say in Nokia's product decisions
  - enscr 13y ago
    Microsoft has been known to do a lot of things that they aren't legally allowed. In this case, I doubt they would not interfere if they didn't want to.
    - jigneshlg 13y ago
      Agree with you, Without business motive, they hardly do anything :)
slowmotiony 13y ago
512MB ram? My year old android handset has 1GB and is slow as all hell. It hangs, reboots itself, shows weird errors ("Activity Phone is not responding" when somebody is calling) and takes 30 seconds to open firefox. I don't know what Nokia is thinking.
- indy 13y ago
  Android 4.4 is targeted to run on low memory (i.e 512MB) devices unlike some of the previous Android releases.
  - Oletros 13y ago
    Nokia X runs Android 4.1, not 4.4
    - pritambaral 13y ago
      Source? EDIT: Wikipedia initially said 4.4.1
      - Oletros 13y ago
        Someone has already changed it.
        mhaymo 13y ago
        I'm still seeing it saying 4.4.1, with this as the source: http://www.nokiapoweruser.com/2014/01/08/nokia-normandy-shows-up-on-antutu-5-mp-cam-854-x-480-display-running-android-kitkat-4-4-1/ http://www.nokiapoweruser.com/2014/01/08/nokia-normandy-show...
        Oletros 13y ago
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_X http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_X
- 13y ago
enscr 13y ago
Lots of comments & speculations but no good explanation of - Why?
- jmnicolas 13y ago
  Maybe because Windows Phone can't run on low spec hardware and MS would like to capture the emerging markets.
  - enscr 13y ago
    That may not be true. Look at the low end Lumia, they are moderately spec'd. Even Lumia 720 which is Nexus 4 level device has a quarter of the RAM & works great.
einhverfr 13y ago
Why call it X when they could call it X11?
pritambaral 13y ago
For others like me, the press release says: "a family of smartphones that run Android(TM) apps". Yes, other app stores can be sideloaded, and they even mention a few, but not Google's Play Store. Personally, I doubt getting Play Store on it would be as simple as sideloading (sideloading itself isn't much different from what other app stores do) because of Google's Play Services. Hopefully root (or a ROM, if necessary) could help with that.
pritambaral 13y ago
I can't find any hint of Home or Menu buttons, even soft.
sprash 13y ago
If Microsoft ever does applications for Linux it means I've won. -- Linus Torvalds
- graetzer 13y ago
  Microsoft is a kernel contributor, and Android isn't really linux http://go.linuxfoundation.org/who-writes-linux-2012 http://go.linuxfoundation.org/who-writes-linux-2012
  - m_mueller 13y ago
    Android isn't really linux? Please expand.
    - eq- 13y ago
      It's not like it runs Linux now, is it? ;)
      - knocte 13y ago
        Linux is a kernel. Android uses the Linux kernel. WTF are you talking about?
        ent 13y ago
        The grandparents post was probably a play on the old "But does it run linux" meme from slashdot.
    - gilgoomesh 13y ago
      To the extent that Linux is technically just the kernel and fundamental services, Android uses Linux but is not itself "Linux". To the extent that Linux implies "GNU Linux", i.e. a whole operating system and a broadly interoperable and source compatible set of *nix services, Android is not Linux any more than iOS is FreeBSD.
      - 13y ago
nemasu 13y ago
No play store? Nothing to see here, move along.
moondowner 13y ago
"In fact, Nokia told TNW that only three APIs have been changed, so if a developer isn’t making use of these, no changes are needed at all." http://thenextweb.com/gadgets/2014/02/24/nokia-unveils-nokia-x-devices-running-forked-android-os/ http://thenextweb.com/gadgets/2014/02/24/nokia-unveils-nokia... This so reminds me of Microsoft's J++.
- kllrnohj 13y ago
  Looking at Nokia's dev docs: http://developer.nokia.com/nokia-x/platform-overview http://developer.nokia.com/nokia-x/platform-overview It looks like the "three APIs" are not Android APIs, but rather Google Play Services APIs. Specifically push notifications, maps, and in-app payments.
DominikR 13y ago
How is that even possible, I thought Android is closed source. At least that's what Ars Technica has been telling us for the last months. </sarcasm>
- Oletros 13y ago
  Yap, and PvZ2 can't be ported to AOSP because it uses GMS API's
  - josephlord 13y ago
    I think you mean that they would need porting rather than just releasing as the same binary in another store (unless that API usage is conditional).
- apetrovic 13y ago
  Actually, Nokia did exactly what Ars was telling for the last months - made a forked version of Android, without any Google services, like Amazon with Kindle.
spiritplumber 13y ago
Installing Google Play on this should be trivial anyway, what's the big deal? The problem is that it's another iphone lookalike. I WANT A DAMN KEYBOARD!
- saurabhnanda 13y ago
  This. I just don't understand what are the benefits of a on-screen keyboard vis-a-vis a slide-out hardware qwerty keyboard. Ever tried using an on-screen keyboard with wet hands? Tried texting in class without looking? Why can't we get one, just ONE, good Android device with a hardware keyboard?
  - ygra 13y ago
    The benefits are that it's cheaper and easier to manufacture. Of course those are only tangential benefits to the customer.
  - CalRobert 13y ago
    Amen to that. If nothing else couldn't it be a differentiator? People have to get tired of rectangles with only bits of metal and plastic on them to signify any real difference.
  - GFischer 13y ago
    I want a slider, but not a side-slider, a top-slider. I want something like the Blackberry Torch, but Android-based, or at least like the N86 or N95. I still use my N86 for everyday use. http://www.gsmarena.com/blackberry_torch_9800-3203.php http://www.gsmarena.com/blackberry_torch_9800-3203.php http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_n86_8mp-2713.php http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_n86_8mp-2713.php
    - Pxtl 13y ago
      Why a top-slider? The side-slider seems to give so much more real-estate for keys. Is it just the portrait display of the screen you want, or do you actually prefer typing on the top-slider keyboard? Personally, I find the on-screen keyboard fine for the ham-fisted one-handed typing of short messages, but I want the maximum width and real keys IFF I have enough to type to justify switching to two-handed typing. So the side-slider seems like the better form-factor.
bbx 13y ago
I remember when Nokia phones were crushing their opponents in terms of user experience, despite the incredible amount of devices they offered. The one-in-all blue button was remarkable. There were no OS, just different brands. Nokia failed to make the leap to smartphones though. I still believe they were the only company capable of competing with the iPhone by delivering a hardware/software combo, but sadly failed to do so.
- Geee 13y ago
  They eventually and actually did deliver with the N9, in terms of a comparable product. Let's see if Jolla can move that legacy forward.
- miguelrochefort 13y ago
  Have you not seen the high-end Nokia Lumias?
  - dandrews 13y ago
    Parent was talking about all-Nokia product.
mukundmr 13y ago
This is a good move as it addresses the need for cheaper phones in markets like India where the "Nokia Asha" line of phones are a poor substitute against similarly priced low end Android phones. By making the user experience similar to Windows phone and removing Google Mobile Services, they have made it easier to upgrade to the more expensive siblings at a later date.
kreeben 13y ago
I have heard great things about Microsoft's Windows Phones and Nokias hardware, but this move is confusing to say the least and I am not quite sure why it is necessary. MS designed the WP OS to run on moderately speced hardware but not on low-end devices? And now that they want a smartphone for the rising markets, they go looking for suitable software, which they find in the lap of their immediate competitor?
dangravell 13y ago
Look like a nice form factor. Sensible size, screen takes up most of the face.
rbanffy 13y ago
I imagine this decision made through both Microsoft's and Nokia's legal departments, but I can't really stop wondering what the implications of Microsoft distributing GPLv2 (with implicit patent licenses) and Apache (with explicit ones) has on their patent extortion<C-backspace>licensing business can be. This could end up being much larger than just a couple phones.
- air 13y ago
  I don't think it has to go through MS legal yet. Nokia has to legally act as if the merge does not go through. If/when Microsoft will sell this phone, it will probably be through a subsidiary, just like it does currently all open source contributions through https://msopentech.com https://msopentech.com , to avoid respecting the patent licenses.
  - rbanffy 13y ago
    I would imagine a judge would not be kind to this type of subterfuge once litigation started. It's completely obvious they are not distinct entities.
- TheCondor 13y ago
  Nokia started this project before the ms deal was announced. That is my theory, they just kept going...
- abrahamsen 13y ago
  Microsoft has been distributing GPL2 software before: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Services_for_UNIX https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Services_for_UNIX
wslh 13y ago
I think the proper way to do this is to run Windows Mobile side by side with Android. Since Android is open source it's easy to do that for companies like Microsoft. You can virtualize one OS or find another way to integrate them. Another route is dual booting but I think it does more harm than good.
brudgers 13y ago
The analogy I see is to Unix. A worthwhile strategy for some larger companies is to build their own flavor on top of a greybox platform. This is what Amazon has done. Their Android flavor is seasoned to move Amazon goods and services. A Nokia Android flavor can be tailored to move Nokia goods and services, just as Google's Android flavor is all about Google's business plan. The advantage that Nokia has is a fundamental B2B ethos. It is a commonality with Microsoft. Their chief rivals, Google and Apple don't have a partnering mindset. Nokia gets Skype and Office. They have a long history of maps. This makes sense. In the long term going with an Android fork has nothing but upside for a company with Nokia's chops and culture.
glasz 13y ago
i can't express how i hate the nokia-microsoft-conglomerate for... this... "strategy". it appears they don't even have what could be called strategy. for years now, they've been fucking around, burning money and talent like crazy. the only thing nokia-microsoft should do is leverage windows phone's potential. and there's so much of it. (i'm saying this as an apple user). all the money for all this bullshit they are doing/have done could have been well invested in fleshing out their ecosystem (and i don't mean "pay developers for ports"). e.g they do have so bloody many customers who'd love mobile devices with the ms office suite. there, right there is you focus point. but no, they delay their mobile office because of internal fist fights. useless bastards management. for god's sake, these things make me want to storm into board meetings, jump on the table and just scream at their stupidity and kicking heads off shoulders like bruce lee. man...
- sirkneeland 13y ago
  "e.g they do have so bloody many customers who'd love mobile devices with the ms office suite. there, right there is you focus point." Given that Windows Phones (mobile devices with the MS office suite) have been on the market for 3 years and not really taken off, I'd wager your theory isn't really true. Clearly having MS Office is not enough to sway many people.
antman 13y ago
I hope they use their own speech recognition engine. My cheap Nokia understood me better 10 years ago than my expensive Android today.
laureny 13y ago
4 inch screen, 3M pixel camera, no Android Play and 4Gb of ram? What year is this, 2010? It's going to take a better phone than that to turn that ship around.
Zigurd 13y ago
I used to think it was a 100% lock that this project would get squished like bug the moment the Microsoft acquisition closes. Microsoft probably has a SWAT team of HR drones and lawyers sitting in vans outside Nokia offices to ensure that they do not incur any Apache license patent obligations, and that this project team gets sent to the Siberia customer support office. But now I think there are two other possibilities. Not high probability, but possible: 1. Satya Nadella thinks differently about Windows Phone, and Microsoft embraces an Android-based product, much in the way that Amazon has. Not because Windows Phone is a turkey, but because Windows Phone is actually quite similar to Android technologically, and it makes sense to create applications that run on both, equally well, with equal features, in order to help Microsoft products penetrate the mobile market faster. The Nokia product becomes the most efficient way for Windows users to get a Microsoft app suite on an Android device, but any Android user will have access to the same app suite. Maybe Windows Phone prospers. Maybe not. But Microsoft wins either way. 2. Microsoft backs out of the Nokia deal. Satya Nadella thinks Ballmer was high when he bought a troubled OEM, including factories that make Series 30 handsets, especially now that Google got rid of Motorola. So all the lawyers that are not worrying about those Apache license patent clause issues are worrying about how to back out of the deal while minimizing penalty obligations. This would be a momentary embarassment, with many years of serenity as a reward.
kul_ 13y ago
phew! finally.
princeyesuraj 13y ago
It should be a challenge for Nokia buy not allowing Google Play Services and Promoting Windows and Nokia based apps but this is the only way windows will allow Nokia to develop more android based devices. As of this post from Nokia http://conversations.nokia.com/2014/02/24/nokia-x-family/ http://conversations.nokia.com/2014/02/24/nokia-x-family/ I think they still allow other 3rd-party sources for downloading the apps and there are still more Android based phones to come.
malkia 13y ago
Nokia is really a confused middle aged man.
pmr_ 13y ago
> differentiated experience I still can't believe that decision makers actually believe that customers want that. Sure, it makes for great bullet points on the packaging, but most consumer in the lower segment just want something that is familiar to all the other stuff they have. Things you will never hear an Android user say: "That Samsung Whatever Cloud App is really useful.", "That second App Store of my carrier is full with great Apps.", and "I wish those buttons were even more different from my old Android phone".
- pavlov 13y ago
  I think Nokia's target market for these unAndroids is not existing Android users at all, but rather all those people who currently have a low-end Nokia. (There are literally billions of Nokia dumbphones in use around the world.) Those users don't go into the shop thinking "I want stock Android" because they have no idea what that would even be. Rather they go by a trusted brand and the availability of well-known apps and games. If the price is right, Nokia's unAndroid may actually serve this market quite well.
  - awjr 13y ago
    These phones are specifically targeted at developing markets.
  - YeahKIA 13y ago
    Nokia said this already that their strategy for these phones is to serve as a feeder to higher end Lumia. Making cheap Windows Phones like the 520 was relatively successful I thought. So its interesting why they chose to go android route. Because if all its customers cared about was a trusted brand then Nokia could have offered that with a phone similar to the 520.
- fidotron 13y ago
  A Nokia device that supports Skype, WhatsApp, Facebook, Nokia's maps and so on has arguably the only competitive bundle of services to the Google one, even considering iOS. I am amazed by the negativity around this announcement when the reality is Nokia should have been doing this from the beginning, but this is certainly going to make the low end market in the EU very interesting.
fidotron 13y ago
The cat is finally out of the bag: Android as a platform is a more capable service delivery layer than the web even for Nokia and Microsoft, especially in developing markets, much as Google and Mozilla like to pretend otherwise. These are going to prove exceedingly popular. The sad thing is Android is essentially a dead platform at this point because Google recognise investment in the core system is helping their enemies, and they hold a veto over what counts as a fork and what doesn't. The only thing that can save Android would be Google letting go completely, which is simply not in their interests.
- Oletros 13y ago
  >The sad thing is Android is essentially a dead platform at this point because Google recognise investment in the core system is helping their enemies, and they hold a veto over what counts as a fork and what doesn't. The only thing that can save Android would be Google letting go completely, which is simply not in their interests. Still trying to grasp if it is just a parody or it is said seriously
kookpa 13y ago
Al the nokia x series look fantastics. I m waiting for nokia xl.
drofmij 13y ago
I was hoping for nokia + android + 41 megapixel camera. But no they have 3 megapixel ones? what?
throwawaykf05 13y ago
Hmm, taking a cynical view, this could be a win-win for Nokia. Consider this: 1) The device does well: Nokia makes some money. 2) The device flops: Nokia can lay to rest the common criticism that they should have gone with Android. They can say, "See? We did Android. It went nowhere." Don't blame the lack of a Play store, because remember, they were in discussions with Google and could not reach an agreement. I'm convinced it's because of Google's requirement that "all your location data are belong to us" [1] which would directly undercut Nokia's own location services. Because of Google's all-or-nothing stance, that took Google mobile services completely off Nokia's table. Also, in the unlikely case that it does well, I wouldn't be too surprised if MS lets it live post-acquisition. After all, it's using their services, and these days there's probably more money to be made there than in selling software. 1. http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/02/new-android-oem-licensing-terms-leak-open-comes-with-restrictions/ http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/02/new-android-oem-licen... - "Google's Network Location Provider must not only be included, but set as the default network location provider; this is no doubt the clause that triggered a lawsuit from rival location company Skyhook."
ashishb 13y ago
Too little, too late. My thoughts: http://ashishb.net/tech/nokia-working-on-android-phone/ http://ashishb.net/tech/nokia-working-on-android-phone/

230 points by wzsddtc 13y ago

Here is a link to the press release: http://press.nokia.com/2014/02/24/nokia-connects-the-next-billion-with-affordable-smartphones/ http://press.nokia.com/2014/02/24/nokia-connects-the-next-bi...

Geee 13y ago

And third, 5-inch Nokia XL. All priced 10 euros apart starting from 89€.

TazeTSchnitzel 13y ago

Forked AOSP? So, getting apps from Ovi store?

d0 13y ago
I hope not. Ovi was a right pile of crap.
Aoyagi 13y ago
Ovi Store has been frozen a few weeks (months?) back, so no updates for MeeGo/Symbian applications through that.

igravious 13y ago

So Microsoft has a Linux distro. Interesting. Anybody care to hazard a guess what the future holds? My take is that this was well in development before the MS/Nokia deal went through (it has gone through, hasn't it?) and Microsoft were not (have not been) able to get it canned. Or, shock, horror, maybe Microsoft are testing the waters - they already make a bunch from Linux patents, maybe they want to see how much they'll make from App Store revenue if these gain a decent market share. When you think about it, Apple doesn't charge for iOS so if Microsoft start doing decent hardware sales maybe Microsoft will start considering its mobile operating system division this way. Given recent news that Microsoft has to discount Windows licences on lower cost hardware to compete with Chromebooks we're starting to see that Microsoft even though it is making money hand over fist is in an untenable position. A few questions. How will Microsoft not be able to develop Mobile Office for Android? How are Microsoft going to be able to maintain two mobile OSs? Are Nokia going to see this through? I think it is a smart play, if they go after it whole-heartedly like Amazon and provide a decent amount of differentiation. One could easily see Samsung going this route.

d0 13y ago
Microsoft (and their staff individually) actually contribute to the Linux kernel so this isn't that crazy. You can already get office 365 for iOS. Not sure about android but it's logical. This appears to be the budget/developing world side of things. I'd prefer to see WinPhone on low end devices to be honest - it's really good even on low spec handsets. I see this as that much marketed "devices and services offering" they are always going on about. They're making a killing from Azure etc and Windows Live/outlook.com is the most mature and featureful cloud thing. They're actually shit hot these days. I still prefer my old fashioned Unix way of life though as I don't want to become a paid up ecosystem slave.
- blueskin_ 13y ago
  Nobody I know uses Microsoft's lockin. Some prefer google's or apple's, but increasing numbers are trying to escape from being a data source for advertising and the NSA and ditching google, apple, and MS.
  - igravious 13y ago
    I agree that this is the next hurdle. To just from Microsoft's desktop embrace to Google's cloud embrace is to switch one master for another even though Google has shown itself to be an excellent open-source champion in terms of their Summer of Code effort and the amount of client (and server?) software they develop in the open. But lock-in is lock-in no matter how comfy the handcuffs.
    - igravious 13y ago
      To just _leap_ from I must at least cursorily proofread my comments. I must at least cursorily proofread my comments. ...
m0nastic 13y ago
How will Microsoft not be able to develop Mobile Office for Android? By most reporting[1], the office team has already had versions of office for iOS (and presumably Android) ready for quite some time. Their lack of release has been an internal political battle at Microsoft based on whether to postpone them until after the equivalent office apps are ready for RT. This is one of the biggest examples of decision making that people have been criticizing Microsoft for (handicapping their non-Windows business units to provide Windows a competitive advantage; which is a sensible strategy, but that seems ill-suited longterm, as those other business units like Office now eclipse Windows in revenue). It's entirely possible that part of Nokia releasing this phone is related to that recent shift in strategy. How are Microsoft going to be able to maintain two mobile OSs? Nokia already has experience in managing operating systems. I don't know how much work "porting" over all the Nokia apps was to Android, but it seems like they've done it. They already went through the experience of porting many of them over from Symbian (and alas, Maemo didn't really have much in the way of Nokia apps). I don't think this is a serious issue for their engineering organization (even aside from Microsoft's much larger engineering organization that presumably could be made available). Are Nokia going to see this through? I think it is a smart play, if they go after it whole-heartedly like Amazon and provide a decent amount of differentiation. One could easily see Samsung going this route. I think this is a logical play from a risk perspective. The low-end is currently where all their sales are (as the mid and high end have dried up faster than their increasing Windows Phone sales have grown); and even though the low-end isn't the desirable part of the market (see every phone manufacturer other than Apple and Samsung as examples), the effort required isn't much greater than they're already doing for the Asha lines. I think they'll have a better chance at building an ecosystem that's piggy-backed off of Android than in building their own. I still don't know that this is a great long-term play, but it could be. Samsung has been alleged to be heading in this direction for ages (first reported as the reasons for them releasing Bada, and later, Tizen). The new Gear 2 watch-thing runs Tizen instead of Android (which considering it's not really a stand-alone device, is probably a good place to test the waters). It seems like the issue with Samsung taking the plunge is how much they attribute their recent success to their own products, vs. the Google ecosystem. Once they cross that threshold, they'll ship their own OS with TouchWiz on top of it. Maybe they'll similarly have an environment that can run Android apps (it's all Linux underneath). [1] http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-office-on-ipad-its-alive-and-coming-sooner-than-most-think-7000026372/ http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-office-on-ipad-its-alive-and-...

d0 13y ago

Is this non-Microsoft Nokia or Microsoft's handset division. If it's the former, I will guffaw loudly in the direction of Microsoft!

sirkneeland 13y ago
it's the latter.

tdicola 13y ago

How long will this realistically last in the new MS-owned Nokia? Will it have the same fate as the Kin?

akumen 13y ago

This is the most confused device ever. A bastard child of Android and Windows: basterdised verion of Windows Phone UI on top of a forked Android that's integrated with Microsoft Cloud. The marketing has a distinct "feature phone" feel. Seriously, Asha or X device from Nokia with Firefox OS would make more sense than this. How many OSs does Nokia have now? 4 or 5?

Aoyagi 13y ago
I don't think they plan making any new S40 phones, so that would make it two OSes.
- akumen 13y ago
  I counted four. Feature phone OS (ODM), Asha, Windows Phone and Nokia X Platform as they are calling it.
  - Aoyagi 13y ago
    The "featurephone" OS is S40 and it's in both "classic" phones (e.g. 515) and Ashas.... unless there is something I've missed completely. And come to think of it, I haven't heard any confirmation of closing the production of S40 phones, so I guess that'd make it 3.
    - eq- 13y ago
      The OS in the most basic of Nokia phones is commonly referred to as S30. It doesn't really need much active maintenance, though, because they mostly only change graphics and included games (and utilities) between those phones.
      - Aoyagi 13y ago
        Huh, I didn't even know of its existence. But yeah, turns out things like Nokia 105 run on S30. I have to try that someday, heh.
    - 13y ago

est 13y ago

spec: http://conversations.nokia.com/2014/02/24/nokia-x-family/ http://conversations.nokia.com/2014/02/24/nokia-x-family/ Looks rather poor. 800x480px on a 5-inch screen would be painful.

Aoyagi 13y ago
It's supposed to be very cheap'o. MS (and by that Nokia) is focusing on "fast-growing emerging markets" a lot.
- GFischer 13y ago
  And they're right to do that :) . A "base of the pyramid" attack on Apple and Samsung sounds like their only option. Only Samsung and chinese companies are cornering that market, which was formerly Nokias'.
- pekk 13y ago
  Nokia has a big advantage in emerging markets where cheap phones are needed
okasaki 13y ago
Painful? 190PPI isn't great but it's far from painful.
- vidarh 13y ago
  It is once you've gotten used to a higher PPI device.
tragic 13y ago
The Lumia 820 was 800x480 on a 4.3" screen, and I found it perfectly pleasant to use. 5" would be adequate for that end of the market. It was less pleasant when I dropped it a foot and a half onto a carpeted floor and the screen cracked irreparably. Maybe the idea is to recapture that market they used to dominate, of low-cost, robust phones with the very basics. (And snake.) Nowadays, of course, the 'very basics' includes web, email and suchlike. But not everybody wants the latest fad phone-game; they want their phones to, shock horror, communicate with people. Maybe they'll find a market that would otherwise go to the most rock-bottom terrible android handsets; pretty sure it'll be a better product than those. Maybe they'll fail. Given it's where they excelled in the past, though, you can't blame them for trying.

arocks 13y ago

Without Play Store and the ability to sideload Android apps (via .APK), you can expect a proliferation of pirated Android applications for the Nokia phones. Once again, Microsoft will enable the creation of a thriving anti-virus industry.

abitsios 13y ago
Coming soon: Windows Defender Mobile NAndroid Edition (Personal|Professional|Ultimate)
sudomal 13y ago
It sounds like an ideal CyanogenMOD candidate. A phone from an iconic manufacturer that's already running Android and needs to be opened up a bit.

quanticle 13y ago

Ars Technica [1] put it best. These phones are dead on arrival. This is not the first time Nokia has done something like this. It released a Meego version of the N9, its long-in-development Symbian successor, before immediately abandoning the platform and switching to Windows Phone. This isn't a sign of some deep strategy. It's just standard Nokia platform craziness. 1: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/02/nokia-to-release-an-android-phone-this-month/ http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/02/nokia-to-release-an-a...

Aoyagi 13y ago
MeeGo was a) successor of Maemo on N900 (and other devices) and b) abandoned, because "burning bridges".
- cdooh 13y ago
  It was abandoned because "internal politics"
  - Aoyagi 13y ago
    Funny how those internal politics are internal only now that MS bought Nokia, isn't it?
    - hatu 13y ago
      Nokia's got a long history of internal turf wars. I'm sure it was Symbian vs Meego without Microsoft being in the picture.
    - cdooh 13y ago
      The all powerful, at the time anyway, Symbian team didn't like competition and did everything they could to muck up Maemo/Meego development.
- sirkneeland 13y ago
  "burning platform" not "burning bridges" (although the number of bridges burned between Nokia leadership and employees, suppliers, developers, distributors/retailers and carriers was nothing short of astonishing. And catastrophic).

awjr 13y ago

From what I can tell, this is aimed at 3rd world countries. I'm guessing Microsoft did not want to put their OS on a device that won't have top performance as well.

ulfw 13y ago

Such a pointless release that will only lead to customer confusion. I bet those will be cancelled as soon as the MSFT purchase (finally) closes. Just goes to show why Nokia has been sold off. Sad.

Noughmad 13y ago
It may be a negotiating tactic. You know, you need us more than we need you.
- ulfw 13y ago
  Negotiate with whom?

aviraldg 13y ago

Embrace, extend, extinguish...

CmonDev 13y ago

It's good to see an Engadget link again. TheVerge is turning into a hipster political magazine...

sirkneeland 13y ago
Glad I'm not the only one who finds the Verge's foray into politics to be wholly unwelcome.

blueskin_ 13y ago

Weak specs, no physical buttons, and one of the two missing an SD card. I predict these will not do well. Edit: Oh, and the interface is awful. The sensible thing would have been to use Android as inspiration to redesign Metro to be less ugly and nonfunctional, not to try and port Metro to Android...

NicoJuicy 13y ago

Weird. Microsoft intended to handle Android as a non-primary platform. I'm curious if those apps are going to be available on the Google Play Store as well (i hope so). With this move, they should have update apps on the Android platform. Also, i'm curious if developers have to change their Android APP UI to fit the new UI from Nokia (could be dangerous for Nokia). Next, Android users all have a gmail account, now they need to switch to Outlook ? Not exactly user-friendly. Most developers have to change their Authentication also on their app.

steele 13y ago

If the camera is as good as the other Lumias and this can be flashed w/ CM, count me first in line at the fire sale

eurleif 13y ago
>3-megapixel camera :/
- baq 13y ago
  pixels without sensor size are meaningless. a 3 megapixel camera that has good dynamic range and can shoot reasonable shutter speed at low isos in low light would be much better in a phone than a 15 mpix.
taude 13y ago
I was hoping for that 41 megapixel camera that seems to be pretty excellent...that would have been interesting.

raveli 13y ago

Divide and conquer. By making any success with its Android phones, Microsoft can achieve two goals: - further fragment the Android platform making it more difficult for users to buy devices and for developers to support the various devices and - benefit from Android's strong market position instead of only trying to create market for Windows phones in places where it doesn't fit They've identified the greatest flaw in Android ecosystem and they're exploiting it in an attempt to make their own offering more attractive in the long run.

fauigerzigerk 13y ago
Divide yes, but as for the conquer part we'll have to wait and see. It seems to me that they might confuse themselves and their own customers more than anyone else with that convoluted strategy. They identified Android's greatest flaw and swiftly added it to their own ecosystem.

jigneshlg 13y ago

From business point of view i am bit curious to know why microsoft is started using Android OS? Android owned by Google and the biggest competitor of Microsoft. Despite of having nice operating system like Windows mobile, they are trying Android ! This gives good sign of co-operation between giants. Share your thoughts !

bskap 13y ago
The Nokia/Microsoft deal hasn't completely gone through yet. Until it does, Microsoft is not legally allowed to have any say in Nokia's product decisions
- enscr 13y ago
  Microsoft has been known to do a lot of things that they aren't legally allowed. In this case, I doubt they would not interfere if they didn't want to.
  - jigneshlg 13y ago
    Agree with you, Without business motive, they hardly do anything :)

slowmotiony 13y ago

512MB ram? My year old android handset has 1GB and is slow as all hell. It hangs, reboots itself, shows weird errors ("Activity Phone is not responding" when somebody is calling) and takes 30 seconds to open firefox. I don't know what Nokia is thinking.

indy 13y ago
Android 4.4 is targeted to run on low memory (i.e 512MB) devices unlike some of the previous Android releases.
- Oletros 13y ago
  Nokia X runs Android 4.1, not 4.4
  - pritambaral 13y ago
    Source? EDIT: Wikipedia initially said 4.4.1
    - Oletros 13y ago
      Someone has already changed it.
      - mhaymo 13y ago
        I'm still seeing it saying 4.4.1, with this as the source: http://www.nokiapoweruser.com/2014/01/08/nokia-normandy-shows-up-on-antutu-5-mp-cam-854-x-480-display-running-android-kitkat-4-4-1/ http://www.nokiapoweruser.com/2014/01/08/nokia-normandy-show...
        Oletros 13y ago
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_X http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_X
13y ago

enscr 13y ago

Lots of comments & speculations but no good explanation of - Why?

jmnicolas 13y ago
Maybe because Windows Phone can't run on low spec hardware and MS would like to capture the emerging markets.
- enscr 13y ago
  That may not be true. Look at the low end Lumia, they are moderately spec'd. Even Lumia 720 which is Nexus 4 level device has a quarter of the RAM & works great.

einhverfr 13y ago

Why call it X when they could call it X11?

pritambaral 13y ago

For others like me, the press release says: "a family of smartphones that run Android(TM) apps". Yes, other app stores can be sideloaded, and they even mention a few, but not Google's Play Store. Personally, I doubt getting Play Store on it would be as simple as sideloading (sideloading itself isn't much different from what other app stores do) because of Google's Play Services. Hopefully root (or a ROM, if necessary) could help with that.

pritambaral 13y ago

I can't find any hint of Home or Menu buttons, even soft.

sprash 13y ago

If Microsoft ever does applications for Linux it means I've won. -- Linus Torvalds

graetzer 13y ago
Microsoft is a kernel contributor, and Android isn't really linux http://go.linuxfoundation.org/who-writes-linux-2012 http://go.linuxfoundation.org/who-writes-linux-2012
- m_mueller 13y ago
  Android isn't really linux? Please expand.
  - eq- 13y ago
    It's not like it runs Linux now, is it? ;)
    - knocte 13y ago
      Linux is a kernel. Android uses the Linux kernel. WTF are you talking about?
      - ent 13y ago
        The grandparents post was probably a play on the old "But does it run linux" meme from slashdot.
  - gilgoomesh 13y ago
    To the extent that Linux is technically just the kernel and fundamental services, Android uses Linux but is not itself "Linux". To the extent that Linux implies "GNU Linux", i.e. a whole operating system and a broadly interoperable and source compatible set of *nix services, Android is not Linux any more than iOS is FreeBSD.
    - 13y ago

nemasu 13y ago

No play store? Nothing to see here, move along.

moondowner 13y ago

"In fact, Nokia told TNW that only three APIs have been changed, so if a developer isn’t making use of these, no changes are needed at all." http://thenextweb.com/gadgets/2014/02/24/nokia-unveils-nokia-x-devices-running-forked-android-os/ http://thenextweb.com/gadgets/2014/02/24/nokia-unveils-nokia... This so reminds me of Microsoft's J++.

kllrnohj 13y ago
Looking at Nokia's dev docs: http://developer.nokia.com/nokia-x/platform-overview http://developer.nokia.com/nokia-x/platform-overview It looks like the "three APIs" are not Android APIs, but rather Google Play Services APIs. Specifically push notifications, maps, and in-app payments.

DominikR 13y ago

How is that even possible, I thought Android is closed source. At least that's what Ars Technica has been telling us for the last months. </sarcasm>

Oletros 13y ago
Yap, and PvZ2 can't be ported to AOSP because it uses GMS API's
- josephlord 13y ago
  I think you mean that they would need porting rather than just releasing as the same binary in another store (unless that API usage is conditional).
apetrovic 13y ago
Actually, Nokia did exactly what Ars was telling for the last months - made a forked version of Android, without any Google services, like Amazon with Kindle.

spiritplumber 13y ago

Installing Google Play on this should be trivial anyway, what's the big deal? The problem is that it's another iphone lookalike. I WANT A DAMN KEYBOARD!

saurabhnanda 13y ago
This. I just don't understand what are the benefits of a on-screen keyboard vis-a-vis a slide-out hardware qwerty keyboard. Ever tried using an on-screen keyboard with wet hands? Tried texting in class without looking? Why can't we get one, just ONE, good Android device with a hardware keyboard?
- ygra 13y ago
  The benefits are that it's cheaper and easier to manufacture. Of course those are only tangential benefits to the customer.
- CalRobert 13y ago
  Amen to that. If nothing else couldn't it be a differentiator? People have to get tired of rectangles with only bits of metal and plastic on them to signify any real difference.
- GFischer 13y ago
  I want a slider, but not a side-slider, a top-slider. I want something like the Blackberry Torch, but Android-based, or at least like the N86 or N95. I still use my N86 for everyday use. http://www.gsmarena.com/blackberry_torch_9800-3203.php http://www.gsmarena.com/blackberry_torch_9800-3203.php http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_n86_8mp-2713.php http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_n86_8mp-2713.php
  - Pxtl 13y ago
    Why a top-slider? The side-slider seems to give so much more real-estate for keys. Is it just the portrait display of the screen you want, or do you actually prefer typing on the top-slider keyboard? Personally, I find the on-screen keyboard fine for the ham-fisted one-handed typing of short messages, but I want the maximum width and real keys IFF I have enough to type to justify switching to two-handed typing. So the side-slider seems like the better form-factor.

bbx 13y ago

I remember when Nokia phones were crushing their opponents in terms of user experience, despite the incredible amount of devices they offered. The one-in-all blue button was remarkable. There were no OS, just different brands. Nokia failed to make the leap to smartphones though. I still believe they were the only company capable of competing with the iPhone by delivering a hardware/software combo, but sadly failed to do so.

Geee 13y ago
They eventually and actually did deliver with the N9, in terms of a comparable product. Let's see if Jolla can move that legacy forward.
miguelrochefort 13y ago
Have you not seen the high-end Nokia Lumias?
- dandrews 13y ago
  Parent was talking about all-Nokia product.

mukundmr 13y ago

This is a good move as it addresses the need for cheaper phones in markets like India where the "Nokia Asha" line of phones are a poor substitute against similarly priced low end Android phones. By making the user experience similar to Windows phone and removing Google Mobile Services, they have made it easier to upgrade to the more expensive siblings at a later date.

kreeben 13y ago

I have heard great things about Microsoft's Windows Phones and Nokias hardware, but this move is confusing to say the least and I am not quite sure why it is necessary. MS designed the WP OS to run on moderately speced hardware but not on low-end devices? And now that they want a smartphone for the rising markets, they go looking for suitable software, which they find in the lap of their immediate competitor?

dangravell 13y ago

Look like a nice form factor. Sensible size, screen takes up most of the face.

rbanffy 13y ago

I imagine this decision made through both Microsoft's and Nokia's legal departments, but I can't really stop wondering what the implications of Microsoft distributing GPLv2 (with implicit patent licenses) and Apache (with explicit ones) has on their patent extortion<C-backspace>licensing business can be. This could end up being much larger than just a couple phones.

air 13y ago
I don't think it has to go through MS legal yet. Nokia has to legally act as if the merge does not go through. If/when Microsoft will sell this phone, it will probably be through a subsidiary, just like it does currently all open source contributions through https://msopentech.com https://msopentech.com , to avoid respecting the patent licenses.
- rbanffy 13y ago
  I would imagine a judge would not be kind to this type of subterfuge once litigation started. It's completely obvious they are not distinct entities.
TheCondor 13y ago
Nokia started this project before the ms deal was announced. That is my theory, they just kept going...
abrahamsen 13y ago
Microsoft has been distributing GPL2 software before: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Services_for_UNIX https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Services_for_UNIX

wslh 13y ago

I think the proper way to do this is to run Windows Mobile side by side with Android. Since Android is open source it's easy to do that for companies like Microsoft. You can virtualize one OS or find another way to integrate them. Another route is dual booting but I think it does more harm than good.

brudgers 13y ago

The analogy I see is to Unix. A worthwhile strategy for some larger companies is to build their own flavor on top of a greybox platform. This is what Amazon has done. Their Android flavor is seasoned to move Amazon goods and services. A Nokia Android flavor can be tailored to move Nokia goods and services, just as Google's Android flavor is all about Google's business plan. The advantage that Nokia has is a fundamental B2B ethos. It is a commonality with Microsoft. Their chief rivals, Google and Apple don't have a partnering mindset. Nokia gets Skype and Office. They have a long history of maps. This makes sense. In the long term going with an Android fork has nothing but upside for a company with Nokia's chops and culture.

glasz 13y ago

i can't express how i hate the nokia-microsoft-conglomerate for... this... "strategy". it appears they don't even have what could be called strategy. for years now, they've been fucking around, burning money and talent like crazy. the only thing nokia-microsoft should do is leverage windows phone's potential. and there's so much of it. (i'm saying this as an apple user). all the money for all this bullshit they are doing/have done could have been well invested in fleshing out their ecosystem (and i don't mean "pay developers for ports"). e.g they do have so bloody many customers who'd love mobile devices with the ms office suite. there, right there is you focus point. but no, they delay their mobile office because of internal fist fights. useless bastards management. for god's sake, these things make me want to storm into board meetings, jump on the table and just scream at their stupidity and kicking heads off shoulders like bruce lee. man...

sirkneeland 13y ago
"e.g they do have so bloody many customers who'd love mobile devices with the ms office suite. there, right there is you focus point." Given that Windows Phones (mobile devices with the MS office suite) have been on the market for 3 years and not really taken off, I'd wager your theory isn't really true. Clearly having MS Office is not enough to sway many people.

antman 13y ago

I hope they use their own speech recognition engine. My cheap Nokia understood me better 10 years ago than my expensive Android today.

laureny 13y ago

4 inch screen, 3M pixel camera, no Android Play and 4Gb of ram? What year is this, 2010? It's going to take a better phone than that to turn that ship around.

Zigurd 13y ago

I used to think it was a 100% lock that this project would get squished like bug the moment the Microsoft acquisition closes. Microsoft probably has a SWAT team of HR drones and lawyers sitting in vans outside Nokia offices to ensure that they do not incur any Apache license patent obligations, and that this project team gets sent to the Siberia customer support office. But now I think there are two other possibilities. Not high probability, but possible: 1. Satya Nadella thinks differently about Windows Phone, and Microsoft embraces an Android-based product, much in the way that Amazon has. Not because Windows Phone is a turkey, but because Windows Phone is actually quite similar to Android technologically, and it makes sense to create applications that run on both, equally well, with equal features, in order to help Microsoft products penetrate the mobile market faster. The Nokia product becomes the most efficient way for Windows users to get a Microsoft app suite on an Android device, but any Android user will have access to the same app suite. Maybe Windows Phone prospers. Maybe not. But Microsoft wins either way. 2. Microsoft backs out of the Nokia deal. Satya Nadella thinks Ballmer was high when he bought a troubled OEM, including factories that make Series 30 handsets, especially now that Google got rid of Motorola. So all the lawyers that are not worrying about those Apache license patent clause issues are worrying about how to back out of the deal while minimizing penalty obligations. This would be a momentary embarassment, with many years of serenity as a reward.

kul_ 13y ago

phew! finally.

princeyesuraj 13y ago

It should be a challenge for Nokia buy not allowing Google Play Services and Promoting Windows and Nokia based apps but this is the only way windows will allow Nokia to develop more android based devices. As of this post from Nokia http://conversations.nokia.com/2014/02/24/nokia-x-family/ http://conversations.nokia.com/2014/02/24/nokia-x-family/ I think they still allow other 3rd-party sources for downloading the apps and there are still more Android based phones to come.

malkia 13y ago

Nokia is really a confused middle aged man.

pmr_ 13y ago

> differentiated experience I still can't believe that decision makers actually believe that customers want that. Sure, it makes for great bullet points on the packaging, but most consumer in the lower segment just want something that is familiar to all the other stuff they have. Things you will never hear an Android user say: "That Samsung Whatever Cloud App is really useful.", "That second App Store of my carrier is full with great Apps.", and "I wish those buttons were even more different from my old Android phone".

pavlov 13y ago
I think Nokia's target market for these unAndroids is not existing Android users at all, but rather all those people who currently have a low-end Nokia. (There are literally billions of Nokia dumbphones in use around the world.) Those users don't go into the shop thinking "I want stock Android" because they have no idea what that would even be. Rather they go by a trusted brand and the availability of well-known apps and games. If the price is right, Nokia's unAndroid may actually serve this market quite well.
- awjr 13y ago
  These phones are specifically targeted at developing markets.
- YeahKIA 13y ago
  Nokia said this already that their strategy for these phones is to serve as a feeder to higher end Lumia. Making cheap Windows Phones like the 520 was relatively successful I thought. So its interesting why they chose to go android route. Because if all its customers cared about was a trusted brand then Nokia could have offered that with a phone similar to the 520.
fidotron 13y ago
A Nokia device that supports Skype, WhatsApp, Facebook, Nokia's maps and so on has arguably the only competitive bundle of services to the Google one, even considering iOS. I am amazed by the negativity around this announcement when the reality is Nokia should have been doing this from the beginning, but this is certainly going to make the low end market in the EU very interesting.

fidotron 13y ago

The cat is finally out of the bag: Android as a platform is a more capable service delivery layer than the web even for Nokia and Microsoft, especially in developing markets, much as Google and Mozilla like to pretend otherwise. These are going to prove exceedingly popular. The sad thing is Android is essentially a dead platform at this point because Google recognise investment in the core system is helping their enemies, and they hold a veto over what counts as a fork and what doesn't. The only thing that can save Android would be Google letting go completely, which is simply not in their interests.

Oletros 13y ago
>The sad thing is Android is essentially a dead platform at this point because Google recognise investment in the core system is helping their enemies, and they hold a veto over what counts as a fork and what doesn't. The only thing that can save Android would be Google letting go completely, which is simply not in their interests. Still trying to grasp if it is just a parody or it is said seriously

kookpa 13y ago

Al the nokia x series look fantastics. I m waiting for nokia xl.

drofmij 13y ago

I was hoping for nokia + android + 41 megapixel camera. But no they have 3 megapixel ones? what?

throwawaykf05 13y ago

Hmm, taking a cynical view, this could be a win-win for Nokia. Consider this: 1) The device does well: Nokia makes some money. 2) The device flops: Nokia can lay to rest the common criticism that they should have gone with Android. They can say, "See? We did Android. It went nowhere." Don't blame the lack of a Play store, because remember, they were in discussions with Google and could not reach an agreement. I'm convinced it's because of Google's requirement that "all your location data are belong to us" [1] which would directly undercut Nokia's own location services. Because of Google's all-or-nothing stance, that took Google mobile services completely off Nokia's table. Also, in the unlikely case that it does well, I wouldn't be too surprised if MS lets it live post-acquisition. After all, it's using their services, and these days there's probably more money to be made there than in selling software. 1. http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/02/new-android-oem-licensing-terms-leak-open-comes-with-restrictions/ http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/02/new-android-oem-licen... - "Google's Network Location Provider must not only be included, but set as the default network location provider; this is no doubt the clause that triggered a lawsuit from rival location company Skyhook."

ashishb 13y ago

Too little, too late. My thoughts: http://ashishb.net/tech/nokia-working-on-android-phone/ http://ashishb.net/tech/nokia-working-on-android-phone/