4 ms·

I've definitely noticed that with the clothes. As a programmer, you have the right and obligation to wear an informal but fairly regimented and slightly embarra

I've definitely noticed that with the clothes. As a programmer, you have the right and obligation to wear an informal but fairly regimented and slightly embarrassing uniform (e.g., cargo shorts + thinkgeek tshirt), which cements your social position. You basically cannot dress "nicely" without people judging you, from both above and below.

ahomescu1 13y ago
You can dress business casual as a programmer, and I don't think anyone judges you (I know plenty of "nerds" who dress business casual). So I'm assuming that when you say "nicely", you mean suit&tie. As I was reading your comment, one question came to my mind: why? If you work in front of a computer for 8-10 hours a day, and the only people you interact (briefly) are others on your team, what's the point of dressing up? I can see the reason for it in jobs where there's a lot of contact with others (who you need to impress), but that's not the case for programmers.
- _delirium 13y ago
  Depends on the setting, but in some settings I've felt overdressed and even gotten odd comments when dressing business casual. I interpret that to mean slacks and button shirt, plus sport coat when weather warrants (but not a suit, and probably no tie). Less of an issue in Europe than in the US afaict, although the opposite could be an issue in Europe (wearing shorts to the office is fairly unusual in many countries, even for programmers).
onedev 13y ago
Why can you just wear some of the freshest designer shit and put everyone you work with to shame causing them to step up their game?
- hrktb 13y ago
  Is it a matter of shame ? _delirium's feeling of obligation feels weird while interesting. bringing shame to the game is weirder.
marquis 13y ago
I'm a rather fashionable young woman thanks. It doesn't bother me in the slightest when I meet someone whose clothes don't fit the stereotype, perhaps you are in a more cloistered environment?
- hobs 13y ago
  I wish it was not the case, but when it comes to this behavior, the social norms are not within our personal control. I mostly like the informal dress, but have been told more than once (by executives) that it makes me appear like someone who cant be trusted with authority. When I dress up, many of my ilk feel uncomfortable around me. Wear what you like, but I have learned time and again that whatever clothing choice you make, everyone is always judging it and making decisions based on that judgement.
  - marquis 13y ago
    >but have been told more than once (by executives) that it makes me appear like someone who cant be trusted with authority I'd consider that a cloistered environment, when you are judged by others on physical appearance. It really sucks, but I also worked hard to make sure I have my own authority. Would you still trust Richard Stallman, wearing a soggy full-size panda-pyjama suit and carrying a small stuffed pink elephant while singing "bye bye blackbird" quietly to himself? Probably!
    - hobs 13y ago
      I was going to say "trust him with what?", because while Stallman can be respected on some bounds, I wouldn't trust him to do anything but develop software. I take your point that where I work might be considered a cloistered environment, but the comment about people judging your appearance is a world wide phenomena, not something that lives in one workplace. For example: 1. Recently HN had an article about a younger guy who added a fake beard to his freelancer profile, and noticed he received more gigs as a result. 2. Attractive people get more opportunities in life http://www.businessinsider.com/beautiful-people-get-more-job-interviews-2013-9 http://www.businessinsider.com/beautiful-people-get-more-job... The average callback rate was 30% across all of the CVs sent out. For attractive women, it was 54%, and for attractive men, 47%. Unattractive women had by far the worst results, with a 7% callback rate. Unattractive men had a 26% rate. I could go on, but this is not a me thing, its a we (people) thing.
krakensden 13y ago
In my experience, cargo shorts are pretty rare, as are overtly geeky shirts. Not to mention the post-hipster dandy look, which is increasingly popular.

ahomescu1 13y ago

You can dress business casual as a programmer, and I don't think anyone judges you (I know plenty of "nerds" who dress business casual). So I'm assuming that when you say "nicely", you mean suit&tie. As I was reading your comment, one question came to my mind: why? If you work in front of a computer for 8-10 hours a day, and the only people you interact (briefly) are others on your team, what's the point of dressing up? I can see the reason for it in jobs where there's a lot of contact with others (who you need to impress), but that's not the case for programmers.

_delirium 13y ago
Depends on the setting, but in some settings I've felt overdressed and even gotten odd comments when dressing business casual. I interpret that to mean slacks and button shirt, plus sport coat when weather warrants (but not a suit, and probably no tie). Less of an issue in Europe than in the US afaict, although the opposite could be an issue in Europe (wearing shorts to the office is fairly unusual in many countries, even for programmers).

onedev 13y ago

Why can you just wear some of the freshest designer shit and put everyone you work with to shame causing them to step up their game?

hrktb 13y ago
Is it a matter of shame ? _delirium's feeling of obligation feels weird while interesting. bringing shame to the game is weirder.

marquis 13y ago

I'm a rather fashionable young woman thanks. It doesn't bother me in the slightest when I meet someone whose clothes don't fit the stereotype, perhaps you are in a more cloistered environment?

hobs 13y ago
I wish it was not the case, but when it comes to this behavior, the social norms are not within our personal control. I mostly like the informal dress, but have been told more than once (by executives) that it makes me appear like someone who cant be trusted with authority. When I dress up, many of my ilk feel uncomfortable around me. Wear what you like, but I have learned time and again that whatever clothing choice you make, everyone is always judging it and making decisions based on that judgement.
- marquis 13y ago
  >but have been told more than once (by executives) that it makes me appear like someone who cant be trusted with authority I'd consider that a cloistered environment, when you are judged by others on physical appearance. It really sucks, but I also worked hard to make sure I have my own authority. Would you still trust Richard Stallman, wearing a soggy full-size panda-pyjama suit and carrying a small stuffed pink elephant while singing "bye bye blackbird" quietly to himself? Probably!
  - hobs 13y ago
    I was going to say "trust him with what?", because while Stallman can be respected on some bounds, I wouldn't trust him to do anything but develop software. I take your point that where I work might be considered a cloistered environment, but the comment about people judging your appearance is a world wide phenomena, not something that lives in one workplace. For example: 1. Recently HN had an article about a younger guy who added a fake beard to his freelancer profile, and noticed he received more gigs as a result. 2. Attractive people get more opportunities in life http://www.businessinsider.com/beautiful-people-get-more-job-interviews-2013-9 http://www.businessinsider.com/beautiful-people-get-more-job... The average callback rate was 30% across all of the CVs sent out. For attractive women, it was 54%, and for attractive men, 47%. Unattractive women had by far the worst results, with a 7% callback rate. Unattractive men had a 26% rate. I could go on, but this is not a me thing, its a we (people) thing.

krakensden 13y ago

In my experience, cargo shorts are pretty rare, as are overtly geeky shirts. Not to mention the post-hipster dandy look, which is increasingly popular.