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You cannot sue a programmer for writing a bug in software, or at least it would be thrown out immediately. It is the company's responsibility to ensure that the

by tcheard 13y ago

You cannot sue a programmer for writing a bug in software, or at least it would be thrown out immediately. It is the company's responsibility to ensure that the code is peer reviewed and tested before deploy. There are so many bugs in software, that this would be a terrible standard to set, and no developer would be safe. The best a company could do is fire them, but even that is unlikely.

lutusp 13y ago
> You cannot sue a programmer for writing a bug in software ... Of course you can. > It is the company's responsibility ... Not if the programmer was hired for his independent expertise rather than to be told what to do, and how to do it, by higher-ups. That's a a common arrangement in small companies. > There are so many bugs in software, that this would be a terrible standard to set, and no developer would be safe. All true, but surely you realize that lawyers and judges don't necessarily ask themselves, "Is this fair?" Remember that a group of scientists were successfully convicted of manslaughter in Italy for not predicting an earthquake. It was a different country and legal system, but not that different. http://abcnews.go.com/International/scientists-convicted-manslaughter-failing-predict-italian-quake/story?id=17536977 http://abcnews.go.com/International/scientists-convicted-man... The handwriting is on the wall.
- tcheard 13y ago
  > Not if the programmer was hired for his independent expertise rather than be told what to do, and how to do it, by higher-ups. That's a a common arrangement in small companies. 1. That does not excuse software from a proper code review process, in fact any reasonable software company would probably see this as even more of a reason to code review the code. If I knew that a software company doesn't properly review critical code, I would definitely think twice about using that company's software. 2. Apple is not a small company so that doesn't excuse them in this case. >All true, but surely you realize that lawyers and judges don't necessarily ask themselves, "Is this fair?" Remember that a group of scientists were successfully convicted of manslaughter in Italy for not predicting an earthquake. It was a different country and legal system, but not that different. http://abcnews.go.com/International/scientists-convicted-man.. http://abcnews.go.com/International/scientists-convicted-man.... Come on this is the Italian legal system. No offense to Italy, I believe it to be a beautiful country, but they have had a shocking record in their legal system as of late. And I highly doubt that this would have stood up in many other western legal systems. But even if I concede to all your points, someone on HN should be smart enough to realise that suing someone for a software bug would definitely not be a smart move. And we definitely shouldn't be recommending such a thing. Just like we shouldn't be recommending scientists to be convicted of manslaughter for not predicting an earthquake.
  - lutusp 13y ago
    >> Not if the programmer was hired for his independent expertise rather than be told what to do, and how to do it, by higher-ups. That's a a common arrangement in small companies. > 1. That does not excuse software from a proper code review process, in fact any reasonable software company ... You changed the subject. The original subject was whether a programmer could be held accountable for a bug in a computer program. The answer is yes, under civil law, that can happen. There are companies whose computer science departments consist of one person, which was my example, and in such a case, there is no company-wide software review process, because -- as I already said -- the computer science department consists of one person working alone. Feel free to change the subject if you want.

by tcheard 13y ago

lutusp 13y ago

> You cannot sue a programmer for writing a bug in software ... Of course you can. > It is the company's responsibility ... Not if the programmer was hired for his independent expertise rather than to be told what to do, and how to do it, by higher-ups. That's a a common arrangement in small companies. > There are so many bugs in software, that this would be a terrible standard to set, and no developer would be safe. All true, but surely you realize that lawyers and judges don't necessarily ask themselves, "Is this fair?" Remember that a group of scientists were successfully convicted of manslaughter in Italy for not predicting an earthquake. It was a different country and legal system, but not that different. http://abcnews.go.com/International/scientists-convicted-manslaughter-failing-predict-italian-quake/story?id=17536977 http://abcnews.go.com/International/scientists-convicted-man... The handwriting is on the wall.

tcheard 13y ago
> Not if the programmer was hired for his independent expertise rather than be told what to do, and how to do it, by higher-ups. That's a a common arrangement in small companies. 1. That does not excuse software from a proper code review process, in fact any reasonable software company would probably see this as even more of a reason to code review the code. If I knew that a software company doesn't properly review critical code, I would definitely think twice about using that company's software. 2. Apple is not a small company so that doesn't excuse them in this case. >All true, but surely you realize that lawyers and judges don't necessarily ask themselves, "Is this fair?" Remember that a group of scientists were successfully convicted of manslaughter in Italy for not predicting an earthquake. It was a different country and legal system, but not that different. http://abcnews.go.com/International/scientists-convicted-man.. http://abcnews.go.com/International/scientists-convicted-man.... Come on this is the Italian legal system. No offense to Italy, I believe it to be a beautiful country, but they have had a shocking record in their legal system as of late. And I highly doubt that this would have stood up in many other western legal systems. But even if I concede to all your points, someone on HN should be smart enough to realise that suing someone for a software bug would definitely not be a smart move. And we definitely shouldn't be recommending such a thing. Just like we shouldn't be recommending scientists to be convicted of manslaughter for not predicting an earthquake.
- lutusp 13y ago
  >> Not if the programmer was hired for his independent expertise rather than be told what to do, and how to do it, by higher-ups. That's a a common arrangement in small companies. > 1. That does not excuse software from a proper code review process, in fact any reasonable software company ... You changed the subject. The original subject was whether a programmer could be held accountable for a bug in a computer program. The answer is yes, under civil law, that can happen. There are companies whose computer science departments consist of one person, which was my example, and in such a case, there is no company-wide software review process, because -- as I already said -- the computer science department consists of one person working alone. Feel free to change the subject if you want.