4 ms·

Wow, Netflix has decided to negotiate with the terrorists? I'm pretty disappointed. Edit: Having read more of the non-paywalled version, I have to say I think

Wow, Netflix has decided to negotiate with the terrorists? I'm pretty disappointed. Edit: Having read more of the non-paywalled version, I have to say I think they're shooting themselves in the foot, even if Comcast was offering a better price than Cogent. It sets a terrible precedent, and gives Comcast the leverage to bump the price extortionately at the end of the deal.

middleclick 13y ago
As much as I hate the ISPs, calling them terrorists is a bit too much.
- jaggederest 13y ago
  I'm just using a metaphor. It's all business, but the game theory version is that by even engaging with them here, you legitimize the tactics and have to continue to pay up every time anyone comes calling. Kipling has a cogent explanation of it in poetry form: http://www.poetryloverspage.com/poets/kipling/dane_geld.html http://www.poetryloverspage.com/poets/kipling/dane_geld.html
- strictfp 13y ago
  Actually, the way I see it, further inflation in the word 'terrorist' can only be good.
  - sliverstorm 13y ago
    That sounds like something a word-terrorist would say.
- mcintyre1994 13y ago
  It is too much to compare them to what terrorists do, but let's face it - this could lead to more damage to the internet than terrorists could ever do.
  - venomsnake 13y ago
    World economy as whole. This kinds of stuff just strangle innovation. Currently I am helping (remotely) a friend in US to move his startup (creating value in US) up to speed while bringing hard cash in my country. Both the startup and our workflow rely on the openness of the internet.
  - cdash 13y ago
    I don't know. The word terrorism already doesn't mean anything anymore thanks the government and media so I think it fits just fine.
- venomsnake 13y ago
  Really? There are web pages of terrorists that use the ISP infrastructure to send and receive data. Guilt by associations was 3 or 4 hops according to Snowden files? Since the ISPs refuse to be common carriers it is their fault. (Mostly sarcasm)
- cognivore 13y ago
  Terrorist use terror to further their (often nebulous) ends. Comcast just terrorized me into seeing beloved intarwebs reduced to the absolute shithole that cable television has become. That's terrorism to me. I suggest we treat them accordingly.
- Dirlewanger 13y ago
  Masses of humans, whether it be the Internet or IRL, have a disgusting fetish for hyperbole.
  - RankingMember 13y ago
    Easy there HITLER ;]
loceng 13y ago
It could simply be a way that they're limiting losses - and will sue them later to change it, get money back, etc..
teddyh 13y ago
> negotiate with the terrorists? The term you should be looking for is “paying the danegeld”: That if once you have paid him the Danegeld, you never get rid of the Dane. — Dane Geld, Rudyard Kipling
- betterunix 13y ago
  That sounds like an old-fashioned term for this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_racket http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_racket
- jbnicolai 13y ago
  Thank you for introducing me to that fantastic poem. In case others are interested as well: http://www.poetryloverspage.com/poets/kipling/dane_geld.html http://www.poetryloverspage.com/poets/kipling/dane_geld.html
- jaggederest 13y ago
  I actually linked to that in a comment just before you posted this. Synchronicity :)
lhnz 13y ago
You don't understand. This is the creation of an economic moat (a term coined by Warren Buffet.) The gatekeeper creates a toll and the tradesman agrees to pay the toll. This is an entry cost to new market players and therefore reduces competition. This toll may be increased as the biggest player (Netflix) grows in size and this benefits them, as eventually new startups have $1+ million startup costs and nobody is willing to invest in that cost-payoff scenario. This is a win-win negotiation for both Comcast and Netflix but a loss for consumers. Unfortunately it's just how the game is played.
- nailer 13y ago
  +1 Remember when online video was RealPlayer's website? Imagine if RealNetworks had paid Comcast, and a startup called Netflix wanted to show their product to Comcast's customers. There wouldn't be a Netflix. Whoever has the market right now has it extended for a long time.
- thematt 13y ago
  It's not a win-win, since Comcast itself is a competitor to Netflix. You only have one side paying the tax.
  - lhnz 13y ago
    They reduce the cost of having to fight new market players, which is actually far more difficult to control. It's now just a question of what leverage they will have to play against Comcast which is potentially a much easier game. Generally the bigger you are, the more you will want to avoid volatility as big tends towards fragile - a big company will prefer static contractual obligations to another big company over being attacked from all sides. (I am unsure however how this game plays out in the later stages if they lose leverage and entry costs increase to the point that it begins to suffocate the market.)
- jaydz 13y ago
  If that's the case we really should reconsider our support for netflix. Cancel your subscription.
- 13y ago

middleclick 13y ago

As much as I hate the ISPs, calling them terrorists is a bit too much.

jaggederest 13y ago
I'm just using a metaphor. It's all business, but the game theory version is that by even engaging with them here, you legitimize the tactics and have to continue to pay up every time anyone comes calling. Kipling has a cogent explanation of it in poetry form: http://www.poetryloverspage.com/poets/kipling/dane_geld.html http://www.poetryloverspage.com/poets/kipling/dane_geld.html
strictfp 13y ago
Actually, the way I see it, further inflation in the word 'terrorist' can only be good.
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  That sounds like something a word-terrorist would say.
mcintyre1994 13y ago
It is too much to compare them to what terrorists do, but let's face it - this could lead to more damage to the internet than terrorists could ever do.
- venomsnake 13y ago
  World economy as whole. This kinds of stuff just strangle innovation. Currently I am helping (remotely) a friend in US to move his startup (creating value in US) up to speed while bringing hard cash in my country. Both the startup and our workflow rely on the openness of the internet.
- cdash 13y ago
  I don't know. The word terrorism already doesn't mean anything anymore thanks the government and media so I think it fits just fine.
venomsnake 13y ago
Really? There are web pages of terrorists that use the ISP infrastructure to send and receive data. Guilt by associations was 3 or 4 hops according to Snowden files? Since the ISPs refuse to be common carriers it is their fault. (Mostly sarcasm)
cognivore 13y ago
Terrorist use terror to further their (often nebulous) ends. Comcast just terrorized me into seeing beloved intarwebs reduced to the absolute shithole that cable television has become. That's terrorism to me. I suggest we treat them accordingly.
Dirlewanger 13y ago
Masses of humans, whether it be the Internet or IRL, have a disgusting fetish for hyperbole.
- RankingMember 13y ago
  Easy there HITLER ;]

loceng 13y ago

It could simply be a way that they're limiting losses - and will sue them later to change it, get money back, etc..

teddyh 13y ago

> negotiate with the terrorists? The term you should be looking for is “paying the danegeld”: That if once you have paid him the Danegeld, you never get rid of the Dane. — Dane Geld, Rudyard Kipling

betterunix 13y ago
That sounds like an old-fashioned term for this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_racket http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_racket
jbnicolai 13y ago
Thank you for introducing me to that fantastic poem. In case others are interested as well: http://www.poetryloverspage.com/poets/kipling/dane_geld.html http://www.poetryloverspage.com/poets/kipling/dane_geld.html
jaggederest 13y ago
I actually linked to that in a comment just before you posted this. Synchronicity :)

lhnz 13y ago

You don't understand. This is the creation of an economic moat (a term coined by Warren Buffet.) The gatekeeper creates a toll and the tradesman agrees to pay the toll. This is an entry cost to new market players and therefore reduces competition. This toll may be increased as the biggest player (Netflix) grows in size and this benefits them, as eventually new startups have $1+ million startup costs and nobody is willing to invest in that cost-payoff scenario. This is a win-win negotiation for both Comcast and Netflix but a loss for consumers. Unfortunately it's just how the game is played.

nailer 13y ago
+1 Remember when online video was RealPlayer's website? Imagine if RealNetworks had paid Comcast, and a startup called Netflix wanted to show their product to Comcast's customers. There wouldn't be a Netflix. Whoever has the market right now has it extended for a long time.
thematt 13y ago
It's not a win-win, since Comcast itself is a competitor to Netflix. You only have one side paying the tax.
- lhnz 13y ago
  They reduce the cost of having to fight new market players, which is actually far more difficult to control. It's now just a question of what leverage they will have to play against Comcast which is potentially a much easier game. Generally the bigger you are, the more you will want to avoid volatility as big tends towards fragile - a big company will prefer static contractual obligations to another big company over being attacked from all sides. (I am unsure however how this game plays out in the later stages if they lose leverage and entry costs increase to the point that it begins to suffocate the market.)
jaydz 13y ago
If that's the case we really should reconsider our support for netflix. Cancel your subscription.
13y ago