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Postgres has never been popular. Why the sudden race for popularity now? MongoDB is replacing MySQL not Postgres. I would be interested to know what proportion

Postgres has never been popular. Why the sudden race for popularity now? MongoDB is replacing MySQL not Postgres. I would be interested to know what proportion of Postgres users use the JSON features, I suspect it is still small, even amongst the Node users. The popularity of Postgres is growing at a manageable rate, not an exploding rate and that seems fine to me.

einhverfr 13y ago
> Postgres has never been popular. Not my experience. I have found that PostgreSQL has a remarkably stealthy popularity. I went to a conference a couple years ago and everyone knew PostgreSQL, and even there were more booths advertising Pg services than MySQL services.
venus 13y ago
> Postgres has never been popular. [..] MongoDB is replacing MySQL not Postgres I don't know what you are basing that on, but it's the complete opposite of what I am seeing. Postgres is now the default open source database as far as I can see, especially for Rails. MongoDB enjoyed a brief hype-fuelled day in the sun but is now viewed as a specialised tool whose choice over a more general RDBMS would require considerable justification. I suspect the question of whether its popularity is "exploding" or not depends on your definition of the word. I have certainly noticed a very marked uptick in the last few years. Not exploding perhaps, but certainly ballooning.
- justincormack 13y ago
  Thats what I meant by "growing at a manageable rate". Well maybe Postgres and Mongo are replacing MySQL. I haven't seen Postgres being the default, but who knows, I mostly hang around with people who have been long term postgres users anyway.
  - venus 13y ago
    I suppose my main experience is with rails people, and as of rails 4 postgres is pretty clearly the "default" DB, emphatically displacing MySQL. The author appears to come from much more of a node.js angle and so probably what he sees is different. I'm probably underestimating the number of node.js projects so the author likely has a good point. Still, I'd raise an eyebrow pretty highly at anyone who considered MongoDB a solid default choice for a general purpose application. Most companies I know who opted for MongoDB regret it, for reasons that have been rehashed here any number of times.
- threeseed 13y ago
  > Postgres is now the default open source database Really ? I still see MySQL and MongoDB both being the two most deployed.
  - venus 13y ago
    Yeah, I realised after typing it that there's probably a huge amount of availability bias in my statement. It wouldn't surprise me if Wordpress MySQL deploys outnumber all rails/django postgres deploys combined. And the PHP mainstream isn't moving away anytime soon. MongoDB, though - I do question that, however I have no figures and it again probably depends on the circles in which you move whether you see a lot of it or not. I don't move in node circles much, so I hardly see it at all. Mea culpa. That said, in the startup-filled tech incubator in which I work, and in which rails is pretty dominant, postgres is king. Make of that what you will.
    - threeseed 13y ago
      I work in the enterprise space and MongoDB is very popular. It isn't replacing MySQL or PostgreSQL at all (neither of which I've ever seen) but rather Oracle. And it's big in the higher end internet space as well: http://www.mongodb.org/about/production-deployments/ http://www.mongodb.org/about/production-deployments/
masklinn 13y ago
> Postgres has never been popular. Postgres is the "default" database for django installations. > MongoDB is replacing MySQL not Postgres. That's part of the point, if user bases are switching databases, that's a chance for postgres. > I would be interested to know what proportion of Postgres users use the JSON features, I suspect it is still small For good reasons since it's still young (first introduced in 9.2) and fairly limited (9.3 did add operator and indexation as well as a bunch of functions). I'm in a postgres shop and we aren't quite ready yet to drop support for all postgres versions preceding 9.3 (to my dismay).
- raverbashing 13y ago
  "Postgres is the "default" database for django installations." Is it? It is the recommended DB, between oh, MySQL, PostgreSQL, Oracle and Sqlite3 But I've yet to see an actual statistic on that. With 3rd party plugins you can even use it on Microsoft SQL Server (though of course I don't recommend it unless it's a specific thing)
  - masklinn 13y ago
    > It is the recommended DB Hence "default". You can use any db you want, but if you follow the documentation or ask which one you ought use, Postgres will be suggested and recommended. Sounds like a default to me.
    - threeseed 13y ago
      Show me where it says that PostgreSQL is the default. https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/ref/databases/ https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/ref/databases/ I've only used Django with SQLite but I would be shocked if it was actively recommending a single database. It would imply that somehow Django doesn't work as well with the others.
      - masklinn 13y ago
        > Show me where it says that PostgreSQL is the default. FAQ: https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/faq/install/#what-are-django-s-prerequisites https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/faq/install/#what-are-... > you’ll also need a database engine. PostgreSQL is recommended, because we’re PostgreSQL fans geoDjango (bundled): https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/ref/contrib/gis/install/ https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/ref/contrib/gis/instal... > PostGIS is recommended the migration document also clearly notes that postgres has the best migration support, although it does not outright recommend it (probably because migration is generally an afterthought and production database has already been decided by then)
rdtsc 13y ago
You are both right and wrong. Postgres is not popular if we talk enterprise world that has been buying Oracle. Oracle is an immense behemoth in that space with skilled salesmen, and they make lots of money. I once asked an Oracle salesman what he thought of MySQL and PostgreSQL and he laughed, and basically said they are seen as joke by his customers. Maybe he was brainwashed sure, but I suspect that reflects (reflected? that was 2-4 years ago) the reality in that market. Now with companies outside the enterprise (startups) and for internal projects, I feel Postgres has been very popular. MySQL effectively become unappealing after its trademark issues. Postgres gained a some of those users. It also gained disillusioned NoSQL people, some didn't RTFM, some were mislead, some didn't understand the problem well enough and so on.

einhverfr 13y ago

> Postgres has never been popular. Not my experience. I have found that PostgreSQL has a remarkably stealthy popularity. I went to a conference a couple years ago and everyone knew PostgreSQL, and even there were more booths advertising Pg services than MySQL services.

venus 13y ago

> Postgres has never been popular. [..] MongoDB is replacing MySQL not Postgres I don't know what you are basing that on, but it's the complete opposite of what I am seeing. Postgres is now the default open source database as far as I can see, especially for Rails. MongoDB enjoyed a brief hype-fuelled day in the sun but is now viewed as a specialised tool whose choice over a more general RDBMS would require considerable justification. I suspect the question of whether its popularity is "exploding" or not depends on your definition of the word. I have certainly noticed a very marked uptick in the last few years. Not exploding perhaps, but certainly ballooning.

justincormack 13y ago
Thats what I meant by "growing at a manageable rate". Well maybe Postgres and Mongo are replacing MySQL. I haven't seen Postgres being the default, but who knows, I mostly hang around with people who have been long term postgres users anyway.
- venus 13y ago
  I suppose my main experience is with rails people, and as of rails 4 postgres is pretty clearly the "default" DB, emphatically displacing MySQL. The author appears to come from much more of a node.js angle and so probably what he sees is different. I'm probably underestimating the number of node.js projects so the author likely has a good point. Still, I'd raise an eyebrow pretty highly at anyone who considered MongoDB a solid default choice for a general purpose application. Most companies I know who opted for MongoDB regret it, for reasons that have been rehashed here any number of times.
threeseed 13y ago
> Postgres is now the default open source database Really ? I still see MySQL and MongoDB both being the two most deployed.
- venus 13y ago
  Yeah, I realised after typing it that there's probably a huge amount of availability bias in my statement. It wouldn't surprise me if Wordpress MySQL deploys outnumber all rails/django postgres deploys combined. And the PHP mainstream isn't moving away anytime soon. MongoDB, though - I do question that, however I have no figures and it again probably depends on the circles in which you move whether you see a lot of it or not. I don't move in node circles much, so I hardly see it at all. Mea culpa. That said, in the startup-filled tech incubator in which I work, and in which rails is pretty dominant, postgres is king. Make of that what you will.
  - threeseed 13y ago
    I work in the enterprise space and MongoDB is very popular. It isn't replacing MySQL or PostgreSQL at all (neither of which I've ever seen) but rather Oracle. And it's big in the higher end internet space as well: http://www.mongodb.org/about/production-deployments/ http://www.mongodb.org/about/production-deployments/

masklinn 13y ago

> Postgres has never been popular. Postgres is the "default" database for django installations. > MongoDB is replacing MySQL not Postgres. That's part of the point, if user bases are switching databases, that's a chance for postgres. > I would be interested to know what proportion of Postgres users use the JSON features, I suspect it is still small For good reasons since it's still young (first introduced in 9.2) and fairly limited (9.3 did add operator and indexation as well as a bunch of functions). I'm in a postgres shop and we aren't quite ready yet to drop support for all postgres versions preceding 9.3 (to my dismay).

raverbashing 13y ago
"Postgres is the "default" database for django installations." Is it? It is the recommended DB, between oh, MySQL, PostgreSQL, Oracle and Sqlite3 But I've yet to see an actual statistic on that. With 3rd party plugins you can even use it on Microsoft SQL Server (though of course I don't recommend it unless it's a specific thing)
- masklinn 13y ago
  > It is the recommended DB Hence "default". You can use any db you want, but if you follow the documentation or ask which one you ought use, Postgres will be suggested and recommended. Sounds like a default to me.
  - threeseed 13y ago
    Show me where it says that PostgreSQL is the default. https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/ref/databases/ https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/ref/databases/ I've only used Django with SQLite but I would be shocked if it was actively recommending a single database. It would imply that somehow Django doesn't work as well with the others.
    - masklinn 13y ago
      > Show me where it says that PostgreSQL is the default. FAQ: https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/faq/install/#what-are-django-s-prerequisites https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/faq/install/#what-are-... > you’ll also need a database engine. PostgreSQL is recommended, because we’re PostgreSQL fans geoDjango (bundled): https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/ref/contrib/gis/install/ https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/ref/contrib/gis/instal... > PostGIS is recommended the migration document also clearly notes that postgres has the best migration support, although it does not outright recommend it (probably because migration is generally an afterthought and production database has already been decided by then)

rdtsc 13y ago

You are both right and wrong. Postgres is not popular if we talk enterprise world that has been buying Oracle. Oracle is an immense behemoth in that space with skilled salesmen, and they make lots of money. I once asked an Oracle salesman what he thought of MySQL and PostgreSQL and he laughed, and basically said they are seen as joke by his customers. Maybe he was brainwashed sure, but I suspect that reflects (reflected? that was 2-4 years ago) the reality in that market. Now with companies outside the enterprise (startups) and for internal projects, I feel Postgres has been very popular. MySQL effectively become unappealing after its trademark issues. Postgres gained a some of those users. It also gained disillusioned NoSQL people, some didn't RTFM, some were mislead, some didn't understand the problem well enough and so on.