3 ms·

Unix was here before all those conventions you listed. So go back in time and tell Windows and Mac software vendors to stop making everyone change their muscle

by glesica 13y ago

Unix was here before all those conventions you listed. So go back in time and tell Windows and Mac software vendors to stop making everyone change their muscle memory in order to use some new software... But seriously, this is a complaint I hear from undergrads in CS all the time. My answer is the same every single time: stop whining and get over it. You're a professional now, you use professional tools and sometimes they work differently, that's just the price of admission. Nobody whines that driving an 18-wheeler is different from driving a compact car, they just suck it up and train for a CDL.

noir_lord 13y ago
They might "whine" if you used the steering wheel on the 18 wheeler to control acceleration and the left and right pedals to steer though...
- glesica 13y ago
  That's true, but I contend that the differences between Unix and Windows tools (because that's really what we're talking about here) just isn't that large. For instance, in most terminals you can paste into Vim with Ctrl-Shift-v provided you are in insert mode (although you may end up with weird indentation and such). You can copy with Ctrl-Shift-c. You can use the arrow keys to move around if you really want to do so. So yes, there are differences, but the nix people have gone to great lengths to bridge the gap, to the point that I have zero sympathy for people who can't make the switch (note that I'm not saying everyone needs to use nix, that's a totally different debate, just that anyone who wants to should be able to).
PhasmaFelis 13y ago
See, this is exactly the sort of thinking that got this thread started. Yes, obviously Ctrl-C meant Break before it meant Copy. I cut my teeth on a Commodore 64, but you don't hear me saying that Shift-Run/Stop is a superior way to end programs. Older does not mean better. Technology flows like quicksilver; no one says "you're a professional now, so learn COBOL 60 and quit whining." Professionals favor efficiency. Clinging to tradition regardless of drawbacks is not professionalism. To play devil's advocate to myself, yes, obviously just switching everything over to GUI standards overnight would cause all sorts of problems. Tradition is not inherently valuable, but standardization is. But for fuck's sake have some basic human empathy. In the context of an individual career, having to unlearn and relearn how to edit text is a pointless speedbump that gets in the way of learning actual skills. Teach students what they need to learn to survive in the world, but recognize that their complaints are valid.

by glesica 13y ago

noir_lord 13y ago

They might "whine" if you used the steering wheel on the 18 wheeler to control acceleration and the left and right pedals to steer though...

glesica 13y ago
That's true, but I contend that the differences between Unix and Windows tools (because that's really what we're talking about here) just isn't that large. For instance, in most terminals you can paste into Vim with Ctrl-Shift-v provided you are in insert mode (although you may end up with weird indentation and such). You can copy with Ctrl-Shift-c. You can use the arrow keys to move around if you really want to do so. So yes, there are differences, but the nix people have gone to great lengths to bridge the gap, to the point that I have zero sympathy for people who can't make the switch (note that I'm not saying everyone needs to use nix, that's a totally different debate, just that anyone who wants to should be able to).

PhasmaFelis 13y ago

See, this is exactly the sort of thinking that got this thread started. Yes, obviously Ctrl-C meant Break before it meant Copy. I cut my teeth on a Commodore 64, but you don't hear me saying that Shift-Run/Stop is a superior way to end programs. Older does not mean better. Technology flows like quicksilver; no one says "you're a professional now, so learn COBOL 60 and quit whining." Professionals favor efficiency. Clinging to tradition regardless of drawbacks is not professionalism. To play devil's advocate to myself, yes, obviously just switching everything over to GUI standards overnight would cause all sorts of problems. Tradition is not inherently valuable, but standardization is. But for fuck's sake have some basic human empathy. In the context of an individual career, having to unlearn and relearn how to edit text is a pointless speedbump that gets in the way of learning actual skills. Teach students what they need to learn to survive in the world, but recognize that their complaints are valid.