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certain engineering disciplines require a degree, but the value of a CS degree at the moment is dubious imo. - in my experience, what schools teach is the "the

by Jack000 13y ago

certain engineering disciplines require a degree, but the value of a CS degree at the moment is dubious imo. - in my experience, what schools teach is the "theory" of CS, which only sometimes overlaps with the "practice" of CS - the "practice" portion of CS taught at unis are usually out of date by a couple of years, if not more. - 4 years of your life is a relatively high opportunity cost. Especially in a fast moving industry like CS I had a good experience getting my engineering degree, but looking back it's the social experiences I value most.

zhemao 13y ago
I disagree that the "practice" taught in CS classes gets out of date with industry. Consider that modern websites use a communication protocol first developed in the 1990s and run on operating systems largely inspired by one developed in the 1970s. Of course, some things do change quickly, like what database/programming language/web framework is "in" at this particular time. The underlying concepts, however, do not change as quickly, and those are the things that engineering schools tend to teach. I just graduated from engineering school and started working. The things I learned in engineering school come up all the time. I'm especially glad I took Operating Systems. Sure, you could get through college and get a CS degree without learning anything practical, but if you pick challenging and practical classes, you'll come out a much better engineer. Also, about the "4 years is a high opportunity cost" thing. Given how it's much easier to find a high-paying software engineering job with a bachelor's degree than without, it's probably worth it. Besides, just because someone is in school doesn't mean they can't follow along with the latest industry trends, especially in CS where much of it is open source. It's not like the only learning you do in college is in your classes. So my advice to matteotom is ... go to college. Take challenging classes that interest you (I highly recommend studying operating systems, compilers, and computer architecture). But also, don't neglect the opportunity to learn things outside of class (sounds like you won't really have much of a problem here). Do internships in the summers to get some industry experience (and a nice paycheck). And yes, of course, don't forget to make friends and have fun (I certainly wish I did more of that in college).
mattgreenrocks 13y ago
> the value of a CS degree at the moment is dubious Completely wrong. How do you expect to re-invent the stack if you don't understand the fundamentals, and where we've been before? The practice of CS is something that anyone can pick up. The theory is what makes you more potent. To the OP: don't be yet another Rails programmer. Help us build a better stack than the web so we can move forward.
- randomdata 13y ago
  In my opinion, the theory is just as accessible as the practical side. If you need the structure of a degree program, that's great. However, the typical programmer, who by the nature of the job needs to be a life-long learner, will tend to have what it takes to learn it on their own already. You are going to struggle professionally otherwise. And so that structure is not necessarily an asset. But I do agree that learning the theory is valuable.
  - tensor 13y ago
    From what I've observed, most people don't actually bother learning the theory. Industry seems dominated by populism more than anything else.
    - mattgreenrocks 13y ago
      It's incredibly populist. Pay close attention to what HN discusses on a regular basis. What proportion of it is software engineering? CS theory? Or any sort of deep technical topic, for that matter? Contrast that with the proportion of marketing/blog-spam about "ToDo in Ruby on Angular.js." The problem with aggregators is the latter category always tends towards the top because it's easy and more people can relate to it. But it's not the sort of learning that makes you think, nor is it particularly insightful. It's just telling people what they want to hear: that this Ruby on Angular.js thing is what we all gotta jump on...because everyone else thinks so!
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]

by Jack000 13y ago

zhemao 13y ago

I disagree that the "practice" taught in CS classes gets out of date with industry. Consider that modern websites use a communication protocol first developed in the 1990s and run on operating systems largely inspired by one developed in the 1970s. Of course, some things do change quickly, like what database/programming language/web framework is "in" at this particular time. The underlying concepts, however, do not change as quickly, and those are the things that engineering schools tend to teach. I just graduated from engineering school and started working. The things I learned in engineering school come up all the time. I'm especially glad I took Operating Systems. Sure, you could get through college and get a CS degree without learning anything practical, but if you pick challenging and practical classes, you'll come out a much better engineer. Also, about the "4 years is a high opportunity cost" thing. Given how it's much easier to find a high-paying software engineering job with a bachelor's degree than without, it's probably worth it. Besides, just because someone is in school doesn't mean they can't follow along with the latest industry trends, especially in CS where much of it is open source. It's not like the only learning you do in college is in your classes. So my advice to matteotom is ... go to college. Take challenging classes that interest you (I highly recommend studying operating systems, compilers, and computer architecture). But also, don't neglect the opportunity to learn things outside of class (sounds like you won't really have much of a problem here). Do internships in the summers to get some industry experience (and a nice paycheck). And yes, of course, don't forget to make friends and have fun (I certainly wish I did more of that in college).

mattgreenrocks 13y ago

> the value of a CS degree at the moment is dubious Completely wrong. How do you expect to re-invent the stack if you don't understand the fundamentals, and where we've been before? The practice of CS is something that anyone can pick up. The theory is what makes you more potent. To the OP: don't be yet another Rails programmer. Help us build a better stack than the web so we can move forward.

randomdata 13y ago
In my opinion, the theory is just as accessible as the practical side. If you need the structure of a degree program, that's great. However, the typical programmer, who by the nature of the job needs to be a life-long learner, will tend to have what it takes to learn it on their own already. You are going to struggle professionally otherwise. And so that structure is not necessarily an asset. But I do agree that learning the theory is valuable.
- tensor 13y ago
  From what I've observed, most people don't actually bother learning the theory. Industry seems dominated by populism more than anything else.
  - mattgreenrocks 13y ago
    It's incredibly populist. Pay close attention to what HN discusses on a regular basis. What proportion of it is software engineering? CS theory? Or any sort of deep technical topic, for that matter? Contrast that with the proportion of marketing/blog-spam about "ToDo in Ruby on Angular.js." The problem with aggregators is the latter category always tends towards the top because it's easy and more people can relate to it. But it's not the sort of learning that makes you think, nor is it particularly insightful. It's just telling people what they want to hear: that this Ruby on Angular.js thing is what we all gotta jump on...because everyone else thinks so!
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]