4 ms·

That's an interesting point. My example was more like the article's dilemma... not being perfect. Your's involved an actual [F]ailure. What is a "good" college

by jrs235 13y ago

That's an interesting point. My example was more like the article's dilemma... not being perfect. Your's involved an actual [F]ailure. What is a "good" college? I understand going to some colleges will give you a leg up in the "business" world. HNers and programmers tend to ride the meritocracy train and if one hops on board then the only thing that "should" matter in the eyes of HN peers is what you produce and your results. So don't get a standard job at a typical company working for the "man" where your resume has to make it through HR BS, instead start your own thing? I agree, a system where you can be told you've ruined your life at 14 is BS. I don't know the circumstances surrounding your F. Regardless, the fact that adults gave up and give up on a youth is somewhat revealing about the culture and beliefs they have... sad.

nsxwolf 13y ago
I bounced around from a (non-elite) state school, to community college, and finally ended up with a CS degree from a fairly mediocre accredited private university. I had a pretty bad attitude about education after my high school experiences, so I just fancied myself as some sort of autodidact that does things his own way without concern for the "system, man". I've done well for myself as an engineer, so I feel that I cam out of it all ok. But now that I have kids, I don't really want to pass on my bad attitudes onto them, so I guess I'm facing some of the issues this article discusses.
- jrs235 13y ago
  I just remembered a book I came across in college. I highly recommend that everyone read it, but not until after they graduate high school (otherwise fewer people would care about graduating high school). It's called The Underachiever's Manifesto is very small 4 by 6 inches and only 96 pages. It's a very fast and enjoyable read. http://www.chroniclebooks.com/titles/the-underachiever-s-manifesto.html http://www.chroniclebooks.com/titles/the-underachiever-s-man... EDIT: Your comment reminded me of this book because I want my children to read it someday (but I don't want them to get the attitude too early)...
nostrademons 13y ago
FWIW, I got several Fs in middle school, went to an alternative high school with no grades, got into Amherst - where I failed two courses in my major, and eventually ended up at Google (there were 3 startups in the meantime). I think that if you want to do this successfully, you need to get really good at hacking expectations and doing end-routes around roadblocks. For me, I had the advantage of perfect scores on a bunch of my standardized tests, so I had this other credential that would make people sit up and take notice. My parents also advocated heavily for me, and I was not shy about befriending adults who I thought were more competent than my teachers and getting work/academic experience with them. I'd taken college courses at 3 different schools before applying to college (acing all of them, and in one case doubling the class average), and I'd worked for a tech startup and done good work for them, so I had plenty of people willing to write recommendations for me. The most important thing to realize if you're faced with a roadblock (and probably in life in general) is that different people are impressed by different things. You will never please everyone, but if there are some people who are impressed with you and willing to advocate for you, you can usually do an end-run around the people who think you will never amount to much. It's somewhat unfortunate that the public school system is packed with the sort of people who look at surface impressions only - think about what sort of people might be attracted to work at an institution where their own freedom to decide what to teach is itself set by bureaucrats sitting in the State House who have never gone near a classroom. It's doubly unfortunate that these are people in authority who have significant power over how our kids turn out. But the real world itself is much broader and more malleable than the classroom, and you can hack your way around a bad classroom experience.
- nsxwolf 13y ago
  There's probably a lot of kids today that could benefit from hearing a story like yours.
  - pcurve 13y ago
    it's a nice story, but it doesn't apply to 99% of kids who do not possess the same level of intelligence this person. In today's academic environment, it's downright impossible to get an F as a gifted person, unless you're making a statement. And that's a luxury most kids including highly intelligent ones (IQ 130+ or top 3-4%) don't have.

by jrs235 13y ago

nsxwolf 13y ago

I bounced around from a (non-elite) state school, to community college, and finally ended up with a CS degree from a fairly mediocre accredited private university. I had a pretty bad attitude about education after my high school experiences, so I just fancied myself as some sort of autodidact that does things his own way without concern for the "system, man". I've done well for myself as an engineer, so I feel that I cam out of it all ok. But now that I have kids, I don't really want to pass on my bad attitudes onto them, so I guess I'm facing some of the issues this article discusses.

jrs235 13y ago
I just remembered a book I came across in college. I highly recommend that everyone read it, but not until after they graduate high school (otherwise fewer people would care about graduating high school). It's called The Underachiever's Manifesto is very small 4 by 6 inches and only 96 pages. It's a very fast and enjoyable read. http://www.chroniclebooks.com/titles/the-underachiever-s-manifesto.html http://www.chroniclebooks.com/titles/the-underachiever-s-man... EDIT: Your comment reminded me of this book because I want my children to read it someday (but I don't want them to get the attitude too early)...

nostrademons 13y ago

FWIW, I got several Fs in middle school, went to an alternative high school with no grades, got into Amherst - where I failed two courses in my major, and eventually ended up at Google (there were 3 startups in the meantime). I think that if you want to do this successfully, you need to get really good at hacking expectations and doing end-routes around roadblocks. For me, I had the advantage of perfect scores on a bunch of my standardized tests, so I had this other credential that would make people sit up and take notice. My parents also advocated heavily for me, and I was not shy about befriending adults who I thought were more competent than my teachers and getting work/academic experience with them. I'd taken college courses at 3 different schools before applying to college (acing all of them, and in one case doubling the class average), and I'd worked for a tech startup and done good work for them, so I had plenty of people willing to write recommendations for me. The most important thing to realize if you're faced with a roadblock (and probably in life in general) is that different people are impressed by different things. You will never please everyone, but if there are some people who are impressed with you and willing to advocate for you, you can usually do an end-run around the people who think you will never amount to much. It's somewhat unfortunate that the public school system is packed with the sort of people who look at surface impressions only - think about what sort of people might be attracted to work at an institution where their own freedom to decide what to teach is itself set by bureaucrats sitting in the State House who have never gone near a classroom. It's doubly unfortunate that these are people in authority who have significant power over how our kids turn out. But the real world itself is much broader and more malleable than the classroom, and you can hack your way around a bad classroom experience.

nsxwolf 13y ago
There's probably a lot of kids today that could benefit from hearing a story like yours.
- pcurve 13y ago
  it's a nice story, but it doesn't apply to 99% of kids who do not possess the same level of intelligence this person. In today's academic environment, it's downright impossible to get an F as a gifted person, unless you're making a statement. And that's a luxury most kids including highly intelligent ones (IQ 130+ or top 3-4%) don't have.