5 ms·

I'm always reminded of an essay by, I think, pg about how school works the opposite of real life. In school you are effectively judged by your failures, and thu

I'm always reminded of an essay by, I think, pg about how school works the opposite of real life. In school you are effectively judged by your failures, and thus are encouraged to avoid failing since it will bring down your grade point average. Moreover, the impact of your successes is capped, and at a fairly low level due to grade inflation. Once you've achieved an A/4.0 there is little incentive to put in more effort. In real-life, however, things are reversed. Being mediocre yet diligent at doing busy work in a variety of subjects, which is precisely what earning a 4.0 implies, is not terribly valuable. Instead what matters is excelling at a small number of things, perhaps even only one. The conceit of our educational system is that the way it works encourages students to become "well rounded", but it does nothing of the sort and works stronger against doing so than towards. Students are discouraged from developing passion, discouraged from exploration, discouraged from putting forth more than the minimum amount of effort, discouraged from developing their own interests and their own points of view.

matteotom 13y ago
This is probably the one thing I've hated most about school for the last 7+ years (since middle school; I'm a HS senior now). At the beginning of a term, I'd always get at least one teacher that says "you all have As now, and you can keep that as long as you don't mess up." (It's usually worded a bit nicer, but that's the idea.) I HATE that mentality. It means, to keep an A, I have to be on the top of my game for every test, every assignment, and every class. It means that if I screw up and stay up late before one test, I might mess up my grade for the rest of the semester. It means that one night can ruin my perfect 4.0 (which I gave up on after freshman year), thus "ruining" my chances of getting into my college of choice. Luckily, I decided after freshman year that the difference between a 3.8 and a 4.0 was not worth the huge amount of extra diligence it would require. And that has paid off: instead of wasting time on HW and studying, I've spent my time learning Python and C and Linux administration and dozens of other potentially useful skills (that haven't helped much in college applications, but will be useful in and after college). EDIT: Something else I wanted to add to this: I've thought about this a bit, and I think one of the big problems is how our grading system is structured. Like I said: if you mess up, you're (in theory) done. My ideal system would be the opposite (mostly). At the beginning of (high) school, a student starts with 0 in each subject. From there, school would be similar to an RPG: classes would have a prerequisite "level" required, and each class would gain points toward "leveling up." In each class, each assignment would be worth a number of points, and the total points earned at the end of the term would determine the points earned for the course. In order to graduate, a student would need certain "levels" in each subject. This would not punish nearly as much, allow the best students to progress faster, and allow slower students to take it more slowly. I haven't written this down before now, so excuse any glaring holes it may have.
- falicon 13y ago
  I believe the intent of college is simply to help you figure out 'how you learn' and expose you to more options and more of the world than your "high school life" did. No college is going to give you a magic bullet of knowledge that ensures happiness or success...but every one will give you an opportunity at unique experiences and resources (and if you go the school route - take as much advantage of those as you can). It shouldn't be about earning a grade or messing up and losing a grade...it should be about your dreams, hopes, and ambition...about what you want to get out of life and how you develop those tools, qualities, and skills to get it. If you've figured out code and tech is your passion and you've figure out how you personally best grok it...then you're already years ahead of most university students ;-)
  - matteotom 13y ago
    I'll be going to college for engineering or comp sci, so for me it will be more about learning in a more formal setting and filling in the (presumably large) gaps in my knowledge. In theory I could go out and start working in the industry after HS, but it will be much easier to do so with the credibility (and connections) that comes with a college degree. I agree that for many college is "simply to help you figure out 'how you learn'", but for others it is about the knowledge gained.
    - Jack000 13y ago
      certain engineering disciplines require a degree, but the value of a CS degree at the moment is dubious imo. - in my experience, what schools teach is the "theory" of CS, which only sometimes overlaps with the "practice" of CS - the "practice" portion of CS taught at unis are usually out of date by a couple of years, if not more. - 4 years of your life is a relatively high opportunity cost. Especially in a fast moving industry like CS I had a good experience getting my engineering degree, but looking back it's the social experiences I value most.
      - zhemao 13y ago
        I disagree that the "practice" taught in CS classes gets out of date with industry. Consider that modern websites use a communication protocol first developed in the 1990s and run on operating systems largely inspired by one developed in the 1970s. Of course, some things do change quickly, like what database/programming language/web framework is "in" at this particular time. The underlying concepts, however, do not change as quickly, and those are the things that engineering schools tend to teach. I just graduated from engineering school and started working. The things I learned in engineering school come up all the time. I'm especially glad I took Operating Systems. Sure, you could get through college and get a CS degree without learning anything practical, but if you pick challenging and practical classes, you'll come out a much better engineer. Also, about the "4 years is a high opportunity cost" thing. Given how it's much easier to find a high-paying software engineering job with a bachelor's degree than without, it's probably worth it. Besides, just because someone is in school doesn't mean they can't follow along with the latest industry trends, especially in CS where much of it is open source. It's not like the only learning you do in college is in your classes. So my advice to matteotom is ... go to college. Take challenging classes that interest you (I highly recommend studying operating systems, compilers, and computer architecture). But also, don't neglect the opportunity to learn things outside of class (sounds like you won't really have much of a problem here). Do internships in the summers to get some industry experience (and a nice paycheck). And yes, of course, don't forget to make friends and have fun (I certainly wish I did more of that in college).
spacehome 13y ago
That's really insightful.

matteotom 13y ago

This is probably the one thing I've hated most about school for the last 7+ years (since middle school; I'm a HS senior now). At the beginning of a term, I'd always get at least one teacher that says "you all have As now, and you can keep that as long as you don't mess up." (It's usually worded a bit nicer, but that's the idea.) I HATE that mentality. It means, to keep an A, I have to be on the top of my game for every test, every assignment, and every class. It means that if I screw up and stay up late before one test, I might mess up my grade for the rest of the semester. It means that one night can ruin my perfect 4.0 (which I gave up on after freshman year), thus "ruining" my chances of getting into my college of choice. Luckily, I decided after freshman year that the difference between a 3.8 and a 4.0 was not worth the huge amount of extra diligence it would require. And that has paid off: instead of wasting time on HW and studying, I've spent my time learning Python and C and Linux administration and dozens of other potentially useful skills (that haven't helped much in college applications, but will be useful in and after college). EDIT: Something else I wanted to add to this: I've thought about this a bit, and I think one of the big problems is how our grading system is structured. Like I said: if you mess up, you're (in theory) done. My ideal system would be the opposite (mostly). At the beginning of (high) school, a student starts with 0 in each subject. From there, school would be similar to an RPG: classes would have a prerequisite "level" required, and each class would gain points toward "leveling up." In each class, each assignment would be worth a number of points, and the total points earned at the end of the term would determine the points earned for the course. In order to graduate, a student would need certain "levels" in each subject. This would not punish nearly as much, allow the best students to progress faster, and allow slower students to take it more slowly. I haven't written this down before now, so excuse any glaring holes it may have.

falicon 13y ago
I believe the intent of college is simply to help you figure out 'how you learn' and expose you to more options and more of the world than your "high school life" did. No college is going to give you a magic bullet of knowledge that ensures happiness or success...but every one will give you an opportunity at unique experiences and resources (and if you go the school route - take as much advantage of those as you can). It shouldn't be about earning a grade or messing up and losing a grade...it should be about your dreams, hopes, and ambition...about what you want to get out of life and how you develop those tools, qualities, and skills to get it. If you've figured out code and tech is your passion and you've figure out how you personally best grok it...then you're already years ahead of most university students ;-)
- matteotom 13y ago
  I'll be going to college for engineering or comp sci, so for me it will be more about learning in a more formal setting and filling in the (presumably large) gaps in my knowledge. In theory I could go out and start working in the industry after HS, but it will be much easier to do so with the credibility (and connections) that comes with a college degree. I agree that for many college is "simply to help you figure out 'how you learn'", but for others it is about the knowledge gained.
  - Jack000 13y ago
    certain engineering disciplines require a degree, but the value of a CS degree at the moment is dubious imo. - in my experience, what schools teach is the "theory" of CS, which only sometimes overlaps with the "practice" of CS - the "practice" portion of CS taught at unis are usually out of date by a couple of years, if not more. - 4 years of your life is a relatively high opportunity cost. Especially in a fast moving industry like CS I had a good experience getting my engineering degree, but looking back it's the social experiences I value most.
    - zhemao 13y ago
      I disagree that the "practice" taught in CS classes gets out of date with industry. Consider that modern websites use a communication protocol first developed in the 1990s and run on operating systems largely inspired by one developed in the 1970s. Of course, some things do change quickly, like what database/programming language/web framework is "in" at this particular time. The underlying concepts, however, do not change as quickly, and those are the things that engineering schools tend to teach. I just graduated from engineering school and started working. The things I learned in engineering school come up all the time. I'm especially glad I took Operating Systems. Sure, you could get through college and get a CS degree without learning anything practical, but if you pick challenging and practical classes, you'll come out a much better engineer. Also, about the "4 years is a high opportunity cost" thing. Given how it's much easier to find a high-paying software engineering job with a bachelor's degree than without, it's probably worth it. Besides, just because someone is in school doesn't mean they can't follow along with the latest industry trends, especially in CS where much of it is open source. It's not like the only learning you do in college is in your classes. So my advice to matteotom is ... go to college. Take challenging classes that interest you (I highly recommend studying operating systems, compilers, and computer architecture). But also, don't neglect the opportunity to learn things outside of class (sounds like you won't really have much of a problem here). Do internships in the summers to get some industry experience (and a nice paycheck). And yes, of course, don't forget to make friends and have fun (I certainly wish I did more of that in college).

spacehome 13y ago

That's really insightful.